The Timing of the Psalm 83 War

Comment by Truth:

The Psalm 83 War has not yet been fought. In my opinion, it must be fought before the Ezekiel 38 war. The people groups referenced in Psalm 83 and related scripture (Jeremiah 49:34-39, Isaiah 17; Isaiah 11:14; Zephaniah 2:3-10; Zechariah 10:10; Obadiah 19-20) are not found among the people groups who participate in the Ezekiel 38 war. I believe that Israel will have defeated them militarily before the Ezekiel 38 war.

In a previous article on the Psalm 83 War “Psalm 83 War Imminent?” , I had assumed that Israel would have to fight this war in order to gain access to the Temple Mount. Now I see another possibility. In my understanding of the prophetic timeline, the timing of the division of Jerusalem, the stopping of the sacrifice, and the order of events in Daniel 8:11-14 led me to reconsider my assumptions.

Please refer to the latest version of the prophecy spreadsheet, Prophecy_v4.6.2.xls.

Let us first consider the division of Jerusalem and the stopping of the sacrifice. In my opinion, Jerusalem will be divided on 9/23/2015 (ref. cell Q5), but the sacrifice will not be stopped until 4/26/2016 (ref. cell R5), more than seven months later. The division of Jerusalem will be traumatic.

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Zechariah 14:2

Now consider two other theoretical timings:

1) What if the sacrifice were stopped first, and then Jerusalem divided later?

In this case, the timing of events gives the impression that Jerusalem would be under an externally imposed (probably military) force progressively destroying its freedoms.

2) What if the sacrifice were stopped and Jerusalem divided on the same day?

In this case, the timing of events gives the impression that Jerusalem would be under an externally imposed (probably overwhelming military) force bluntly destroying its freedoms in a single day.

The prophetic timeline, however, has Jerusalem divided first, and then more than seven months later, the sacrifice stopped. What does this timing imply?

In my opinion, Israel will misguidedly give up half of Jerusalem in yet another attempt to trade land for peace. In exchange, the Israelis will be guaranteed protected access to worship on the Temple Mount and the right to reinstitute animal sacrifice.

In other words, Jerusalem will not be taken by force. It will be traded away politically. This is consistent with Daniel 9:27.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the midst of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the wing he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. Daniel 9:27

This is not military force. It is a covenant; a political agreement which will have a term of seven years.

The Muslims will not be happy. They will violently oppose the agreement. For a short while, however, they will be prevented from stopping Israeli access to the Temple Mount, probably by an international peace-keeping force.

Daniel 8:11-14 sets forth the chronological order of events:

11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of YHWH; it took away the daily sacrifice from YHWH, and his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Because of transgression, YHWH’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the transgression of desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of YHWH’s people?”

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

We are particularly interested in verse 13. The order is:

1) Daily sacrifice is on-going (“the vision concerning the daily sacrifice”)

2) A transgression occurs that results in desolation (“the transgression of desolation”)

3) The sanctuary is surrendered (“the surrender of the sanctuary”)

4) The people of YHWH are trampled underfoot (“the trampling underfoot of YHWH’s people”)

Does this order agree with the prophetic timeline? Daniel 8:13 is considered below.

1) Daily sacrifice is on-going

Daily sacrifice will likely be reinstituted by 9/23/2015. (ref. cells R5 and W15)

The sacrifice probably begins within the last of the “seventy ‘weeks'” (before 9/23/2015) because Daniel 9:24 tells us that those ‘weeks,’ among other things, are decreed to “anoint the Most Holy Place.”

24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.” Daniel 9:24

In my opinion, the reason for anointing the Most Holy Place is to prepare it for the reinstitution of animal sacrifice. Once the anointing takes place, animal sacrifice can begin.

2) A transgression occurs that results in desolation

Transgression is defined as “an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense”

Daniel 9:27 tells us that just such an offense occurs. The “He” of Daniel 9:27 will commit the offense.

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the midst of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the wing he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. Daniel 9:27

The “He” of Daniel 9:27 will break the covenant.

In my opinion, this “abomination that causes desolation” occurs on 4/26/2016. (ref. cell R5)

3) The sanctuary is surrendered

The surrender of the sanctuary is implied by “In the midst of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.”

In my opinion, this event occurs on 4/26/2016. (ref. cell R5)

4) The people of YHWH are trampled underfoot

In my opinion, this event begins on 4/26/2016. (ref. cell R5) Considering that the “abomination that causes desolation” marks the beginning of The Great Tribulation, “trampled underfoot” probably means that the people of Israel are being killed.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Matthew 24:15-21

If the above analysis is correct, Israel will find itself betrayed on 4/26/2016. The “land for peace” agreement will be broken by the “He” of Daniel 9:27. The people of Israel will be being murdered.

It is likely that the leadership of Israel will decide that diplomacy has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail. The only course of action will be for Israel to defend itself. It will be a fight for its very existence. Failure to win will mean the death of Israel and large numbers of its people.

And so, in my estimation, it is plausible that 4/26/2016 could mark the start of the Psalm 83 War.

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278 thoughts on “The Timing of the Psalm 83 War

  1. I don’t understand. I think you mentioned something about 2016. The 7 year peace plan by the EU will be put into place next year in Israel and other nations. They said 2014-2020. I believe this is the one talked about in Daniel that the antichrist will sign. The EU have elections next year in May and they want people to vote for the vacant seat number 666 because they want a new president. (antichrist) I was reading about Ricardo Cd from Chile who went to Heaven about 2 years ago, and he asked Jesus if we are on midnight yet or if it is 1 min to midnight because he wanted to know. Jesus looked at him and said there is no more clock in Heaven and time is over, and Jesus told him that this world is living on a tiny bit of borrowed time from the Father, and that was about 2 years ago and wow we are much closer now. The rapture is so imminent now and nothing else needs to take place before the rapture. I believe the saints will be gone next year sometime. A missionary was told by Jesus a few weeks ago that the antichrist of Revelation and Daniel is alive now walking the earth and is almost ready to appear to the wold. So I don’t understand what you meant when you said 2016. Because the 7 year peace plan starts next year and it is coming out of the EU. Just thought I would share that. God bless

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  2. Leanne,

    It may be helpful for understanding to read the comments that I have embedded in the spreadsheet, especially those in cells C2 and J11. They fully explain and support the reasoning for the dates on the timeline.

    I am aware of the seven year ENP (2014-2020). That could well be the ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:27. However, it is possible that the ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:27 will be a separate (different) ‘seven’ that comes out of “land for peace” negotiations (see the comments in cell W15). It is also possible that the “land for peace” negotiations do not produce a different ‘seven’ but rather, merely produce an agreement that takes place within the seven year ENP.

    Blessings.

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  3. I know that Wickus has mentioned this before in consideration… So, what if we consider that there is no 70th week… There is no 7 year period and or 1260 day period or for that matter 2300 day period… Why? Because maybe they’ve already happened and we already missed it… What would that leave instead? What would we be looking for then? How would our timetables look? I think that man has been mislead and has been deceived, and now we are trying by Man’s standards to fit the end times in this 7 year window period that has potentially already happened… And as everyone knows and feels our time is short… What did Jesus say to look for next then? What should we be doing instead? I think if you read Daniel 9 as a whole in context you would get the picture that Christ died on the cross and put an end to the old covenant of the daily sacrifice and by his death started a new covenant, and put an end to the old… I don’t think that the 490 years are broken up therefore… Why? Because Jesus in Daniel vs. 24 Puts an end to transgressions, He makes an end to sins, and makes reconciliation for iniquity… He brings in EVERLASTING righteousness, and seals up visions and prophecy, and He anoints the most Holy…. In context we get a clear picture from Daniel 9 that Daniel was praying for forgiveness, and redemption. Gabriel’s message to Daniel was Jesus, and a New Covenant… Jesus fulfilled the law by being the ultimate and final sacrifice, that is why He says, “it is finished”. Please don’t misunderstand what I’m saying here… God’s word says to search for wisdom as if you are looking for hidden treasures… I guess too… We don’t necessarily need to try and fit God in a box… Meaning his timing and return is at hand, and doesn’t need to fit in our 7 year or 3 1/2 year box… There are a lot of things we don’t understand. How many times have men of God tried to calculate the coming of Christ, and put it in the periods of 7 years, and 3 1/2 fitting the 2300 and 1260 days together, and how many times have each of those Godly men been wrong? I don’t think it will ever fit. Truth I’m not attacking you, I think what you’ve done is great and I’m not discrediting your date that God has given you, but maybe take that date and see if it fits another way without the 7 year treaty, or 3 1/2 year and take out the 1260 days and 2300 days… We know that there is still the wrath of god that will be poured out. There is the Ezekiel 38 & 39 war, the destruction of Damascus… The sun Darkened and the moon turned to blood… Jesus coming in the clouds…Maybe the trumpets start this year or 2014… God’s word says to look up for our signs… Instead we’re all looking at our iphones with heads down. Zechariah 14 still needs to happen in conjunction with Ezekiel 38 & 39… God’s time piece is in the heavens… There were a lot of people who didn’t recognize Christ at his first coming, and missed the signs, and or were deceived and told that the signs had not yet happened… What if we’ve missed some of the signs now, and we’re looking for signs that will never take place?

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  4. me? just praying and watching. all this is much good speculation-looking closely at the Word of God–seeing shadows still but the Spirit will continue to illumine for us–and it all serves a purpose…..to remind us to just keep praying and watching…

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  5. I just fainted!!! Seriously BerryBlueBerry…well ” almost” 🙂
    You have penned my thoughts and was almost too afraid to stick my neck out in addressing some serious lies we’ve been taught about the { whole } 70th week and Dan chapter 9.
    It may be time to lay aside all MAN TAUGHT philosophies and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us. He has promised He would. I love that !
    My question is , when did you come to this understanding? { if I may be so forward }
    Can we take each point and exhaust these to open it up for discussion and clarification.
    Truth, I love and appreciate you in Christ and need you to know how much your work for the Lord does not go unseen.
    Are we willing to take a deeper look and ask the Lord to be the One to teach us?

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  6. BerryBlueBerry I love this —

    “And as everyone knows and feels our time is short… What did Jesus say to look for next then? What should we be doing instead? I think if you read Daniel 9 as a whole in context you would get the picture that Christ died on the cross and put an end to the old covenant of the daily sacrifice and by his death started a new covenant, and put an end to the old… I don’t think that the 490 years are broken up therefore… Why? Because Jesus in Daniel vs. 24 Puts an end to transgressions, He makes an end to sins, and makes reconciliation for iniquity… He brings in EVERLASTING righteousness, and seals up visions and prophecy, and He anoints the most Holy…. In context we get a clear picture from Daniel 9 that Daniel was praying for forgiveness, and redemption. Gabriel’s message to Daniel was Jesus, and a New Covenant… Jesus fulfilled the law by being the ultimate and final sacrifice, that is why He says, “it is finished”.

    AMEN and AMEN!! Maybe we can start there as this is where we have it all wrong right?

    Maybe I can find a clip in my folders { from 2007} that would explain this better.

    Brb { hopefully before I leave for my next little patient } 🙂

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  7. Aha I found it 🙂

    I e-mailed Vic , Matt and Scott for prayerful consideration after Nony from FP raised a pretty pertinent question and I quote her as saying ” TheGeneva Bible, also known as the “Pilgrim’s” Bible, has footnotes that hold that Christ fulfilled the 1st half of Daniel’s 70th week, with His 3 1/2 year ministry”

    Start of e-mail 🙂
    Guys there seems to be a overwhelming desire in the body of Christ to dig deeper into Daniel 9 and lay aside any pre-conceived thoughts and ideologies , seeking the Lord to reveal that to us by His precious Holy Spirit.

    I personally believe that :- ( please correct me if I’m in error )

    Christ Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

    And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. Heb 12 :24

    For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. -Rom 11:27

    This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:16

    We are the Temple – Naos- 1 Peter 2 : 5 –

    Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

    If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are 1 Cor 3 : 17

    What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Cor 6: 19

    In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2 : 21

    Does the 42 month tribulation period kick off when Jerusalem is surrounded. The Jews flee – this ? – http://www.presstv.ir/detail/157971.html ( Scripture confirmaiton in Dec ‘ 07 ? – ) I will send the – Mark 13 : 14 , Luke 21 : 20 appointed- time scripture confirmations e-mail to ******* as he requested our discussion )

    Satan inhabits the man of sin- ( after he is cast out – once and for all – ) ( he still has access to the throne- accusing us daily )- And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. -Job 1

    Till no more place is found for him- see his arrogance – in Is 14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: ( he is sititng on the throne in the apostate church already and has deceived them as he did when he caused the sons of God to rebel against the Lord.)

    There will be the the trampling of Jerusalem for 42 months.

    The protection of the Jews in the desert from Satan for 1260 days.

    The beast ruling / making war with the saints for the 42 month period.

    Christ’s second VISIBLE return and the setting up of His 1000 yr earthy reign.

    Satan bound for that period. Let loose for a little while to test the nations once again. –

    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    Judgment – And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    New heaven and new earth.- And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    Eternity.

    I just Nony’s tenacity and desire for truth…I do not believe anyone of us are ” preterist” in our eschatology thinking or that we adhere to the amillennialism or postmillennialism view…..

    End of e-mail 🙂

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  8. …but things are not quite finished for israel—there is still something outstanding concerning them that needs it’s finish (a transgression). that comes to my mind…so i leave this whole thing open. Salvation is finished–true true true! but God has a final move to make in dealing with His “wife” and their “divorce”. this will be settled for the world to see. i think these passages are going to let this play out like a “courtroom” setting…legal papers and all (the details–land, sacrifices, holy place, the enemies of the “marriage” who aided and abetted “gomer’s split” etc) and it is all in these proceedings–all we are looking to see 😉 that i do not think any of us quite see all—–just yet. praying and watching.

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  9. Oh I agree Andre… you said ” but God has a final move to make in dealing with His “wife” and their “divorce”. this will be settled for the world to see”

    Could that be in the upcoming 42 month tribulation?

    Ok I better scoot outta here…oh this is exciting! I love it!

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  10. i lean toward the 3 1/2 left and have since about 2006. many 7’s have played out already and some still being set up perhaps? but in the “midst” ……that is a kickoff statement. the jews of Jesus’ time thought they were done with that jesus fellow (and His 3 1/2 year ministry) and left Him in their minds on that cross-dead and gone—(they thought….and proceeded to believe in their unbelief)–but God>>>>>>>will pick up the story with them from there–and finish the matter. wow! can God write a story or what?

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  11. Y’all know where I stand on this….i’ll chime in bit by bit…that’s how Prophecy will be I think until He Opens Our Understanding Together……..IMO, At the Opening of the Seventh Seal, Then we’ll ALL just Shut Up, Be Silent and Listen to Him Alone, then He WILL Speak Loud and Clear through the 144,000 and the Church……at the Time He Chooses.

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  12. Hisown: I came to the conclusion last month… It is a long story, but amazing in and of itself. Also I did not see the video above and or any other media that would have allowed me to be swayed one way or the other. My search was after I had read Luke 21 to my kids, explained it to them so that they could understand, which I believe was from God, but then was challenged not only by my wife, but also by my friends that I was wrong and that I needed to re-read it and determine the truth. And so thus began the process of determining the truth and the realization of what Daniel was praying for and what Christ did for us. Not only that but I looked back in History to determine what was going on during the times that these writings were, and to my astonishment even more evidence of this picture already being fulfilled. Another thing that I found amazing is that all prophecy points to Jesus, and the first thing Jesus warns us of is: “Be careful that you would not be led astray for many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and, the time is at hand…” I’ll be honest I don’t have all the answers but I believe we are being deceived and I think we are looking for something that will never happen in the future, because we missed it and or we were lied to… History is now being re-written so that we’ll never know the truth, and those who are in the elite group are like the penguins of Madagascar saying… “You didn’t see anything”…

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  13. Thanks Berry. I believe this may turn into one of the most important topics on site. And thanks Hisown for posting the mail that we discussed a few years back.

    Now back to Dan 9…

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  14. “And so thus began the process of determining the truth and the realization of what Daniel was praying for and what Christ did for us.”

    exactly………if more Christians did that, they would come to the same conclusion, if they can set aside the bulwark of preconceived ideas.

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  15. This link is very important, based on these words……

    ” Because Jesus in Daniel vs. 24 Puts an end to transgressions, He makes an end to sins, and makes reconciliation for iniquity… He brings in EVERLASTING righteousness, and seals up visions and prophecy, and He anoints the most Holy…. In context we get a clear picture from Daniel 9 that Daniel was praying for forgiveness, and redemption. ”

    http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65378

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  16. you all know where i stand,….thank you for hearing me…………………………………andrea., and all of course, you betcha. and to sweet Jesus i say, ” thank you for breaking my heart “

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  17. For those of you who think that the seventy sevens may already be complete, please consider the following (taken from the comments in cell J11):

    As you read the content below, remember that it is my belief put forward in good faith. I am not a prophet. I could be wrong. You will have to determine for yourself if you agree with the presentation of the evidence and the conclusions I have drawn.

    [BEGIN COMMENT FROM CELL J11]

    The “Seventy ‘sevens'” of Daniel 9:24 are Sabbatical weeks. (Ref. Lev 25:8-10, 20-22) There is no other possibility.

    The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 began on 6/7/1967 and will be complete on September 23, 2015. There is no other possibility.

    A Sabbatical week is seven periods of seven years each. Each year is 360 days long. Daniel 9:24 states that “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city…” The difference between 6/7/1967 and September 23, 2015 is exactly 7 x 7 years x 360 days/year = 17,640 days. The holy city of Jerusalem was captured (gained) on 6/7/1967. September 23, 2015 is a Yom Kippur, also known as The Day of Atonement.

    Jerusalem will be surrendered (lost) on September 23, 2015.

    Reasoning:

    1) Daniel 9:24 tells us that “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city” (the ‘sevens’ clock only runs if the people of Yahuah are in possession of the holy city [Jerusalem]).

    2) Daniel 9:25-26 tells us that sixty-nine (69) ‘sevens’ were complete by the time of the death of the Messiah, thus leaving only one ‘seven’ left to fulfill.

    69 x 7 x 7 years x 360 days/year = 1217160 days. 1217160 days divided by 365.25 days/year = 3332.4 years. If we add another 70 years to account for the Babylonian captivity (when the people were not in the holy city), we get to approximately 3,400 B.C. This correlates closely with historical and archeological evidence of the age of Jerusalem. Finds of pottery vessels in tombs to the south of the present walls of the Old City indicate that the site was first settled around 3,500 B.C.

    3) The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 began on 6/7/1967 when Moshe Dyan and his troops parachuted into Jerusalem and took control of it.

    4) The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 cannot have already have been fulfilled historically. If it were, then the ‘seven’ that began on 6/7/1967 would be the seventy-first ‘seven.’ That would contradict scripture, so an historical fulfillment of the last ‘seven’ can be ruled out.

    5) The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 cannot be shorter. If the last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 were ‘seven years’ it would have been fulfilled by the sixth month of 1974; any time of Israeli control over all of Jerusalem beyond then would contradict scripture. Daniel 9:24 says “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed…,” not more, not fewer. Therefore, the ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 is NOT seven years.

    In fact, the number of years in the last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 must be at least the number of years that have passed since 6/7/1967. Any number less than that would mean that the last ‘seven’ were finished, and would therefore place us in a 71st or greater ‘seven,’ contradicting scripture.

    6) The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 could be longer, but not by much. If the ‘sevens’ of Daniel 9:24 were longer than Sabbatical weeks by just five (5) years, then working backward from the death of the Messiah, sixty-nine (69) of those ‘sevens’ would place the founding of Jerusalem at approximately 3,700 B.C. Similarly, if the ‘sevens’ were ten (10) years longer, the placement of the founding of Jerusalem would be approximately 4,000 B.C. Remember that the historical and archeological evidence concerning the age of Jerusalem places its first settlements at approximately 3,500 B.C.

    A Sabbatical week is the only Biblically documented time span of “seven” (Ref. Lev 25:8-10, 20-22) that fits within the aforementioned minimum and maximum constraints on the length of the last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24.

    The last ‘seven’ of Daniel 9:24 will be complete on September 23, 2015. The Israelis will have sovereignty over Jerusalem until then; not a day fewer, not a day more.

    [END COMMENT FROM CELL J11]

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  18. ” Daniel 9:25-26 tells us that sixty-nine (69) ‘sevens’ were complete by the time of the death of the Messiah, thus leaving only one ‘seven’ left to fulfill.”

    ” (the ‘sevens’ clock only runs if the people of Yahuah are in possession of the holy city [Jerusalem]).

    Did they not have possession of the city until 70AD? Why would the “Sevens Clock” Stop at the end of the 69th week?
    What EVENT, Stopped the “Sevens clock” in your opinion?

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  19. Oh my goodness I couldn’t wait to rush home to read this very important discussion and yeah Andrea I love that you keep a eye on me…hey somebody has too{ that made me laugh way too loud }…aniways….I don’t want to divert the discussion away from some pretty powerful truth’s and am in awe how the Lord showed you BerryBlueBerry. I praise God for your wife and those that loved you enough to challenge you.I need to let you know as the Lord is my witness I didn’t see this video or was ” swayed” by anybody’s understanding.I jolted up in bed one night { poor hubby } and shared these thoughts in a flood of excitement, it took quite a bit of reasoning with him to ” hear me out” on that.It’s been an amazing journey as we looked to the Lord to confirm that to His own. I believe He now has.

    I saw the power of prayer today in a way that sends chills down my spine and am having a prayer partner over later today to share that ” visible” witness. I believe we need to step out in faith and allow the Lord to do His work in and through us. It’s very exciting and for those that know me personally, well you guys can’t blame my excitement on my morning latte{s}. I stopped those. Sorry Tony bad advice. Lol.

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  20. If the assumption being discussed above is correct wouldn’t it make sense that the next sign we are looking for is the appearance of the two witnesses of whom we know with certainty the length of their ministry from Revelation 11 – 1260 days?

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  21. Shorttribber,

    The question you asked has been on my mind many times.

    Please allow me to share with you how I reconcile the Jews being in Jerusalem after the death of the Messiah.

    There was not enough time from the death of the Messiah (approximately 29 A.D.) to 70 A.D. for a Sabbatical Seven (49 years). After 70 A.D., the Jews were only allowed to enter Jerusalem one day each year. Then, as the result of the Bar Kokhba revolt (132–136 A.D.), the Jews were banished from Jerusalem altogether.

    Granted, the Jews WERE in Jerusalem until 70 A.D., but consider that if the “Sevens Clock” were running during that time, then more than forty (40) years of the last Sabbatical Seven (49 years) would have been fulfilled. If that were the case, and the “Sevens Clock” started running again on June 7, 1967, then the last “seven” would have been completed about nine (9) years later in 1976.

    That means that the people and the holy city would have entered a 71st seven in approximately 1976.

    Daniel 9:24 says that the people and the holy city have seventy (70) sevens, not more, not fewer.

    So, even though I do not have a direct answer for you on what event stopped the “Sevens Clock,” I know that it could not have been running after the death of the Messiah. If it were, we would be witnesses to broken scripture.

    I believe that the scriptures are correct and not broken. We do, however, have a mystery on our hands. Namely, why did the “Sevens Clock” not run from the death of the Messiah until the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?

    I do not have an answer.

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  22. “I do not have an answer”

    Thank you for your very humble and honest reply, it’s very rare and very useful in our ability to learn.

    “So, even though I do not have a direct answer for you on what event stopped the “Sevens Clock,” I know that it could not have been running after the death of the Messiah. If it were, we would be witnesses to broken scripture.”

    Absolutely….and that is precisely Why the Clock DID STOP after Christ’s Death on the Cross, At His Resurrection, or may even at His Ascension into the Clouds…………But the most Reasonable choice is probably, At Christ’s Death.

    And that is why Only Half of the 70th Seven remains unfulfilled IMO.

    There are many, Many wonderful examples, in types and shadows, Christ’s own words and the Sound reading of Daniel 9 that for me at least, overwhelmingly Prove a Split in the 70th week.
    There is a thread back on FP that I started and it got derailed before I had a chance to share so much about the Split Seventieth week……..it’s a shame……so much stuff to share and so little time to do so.
    My typing ability really slows me down and the stuff in my spirit just can’t seem to make it out.
    I’m going to put another link here….if anyone takes the time to really examine it….you’ll find stuff you may have never understood or even considered before.

    here’s the link

    http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=64776

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  23. “The question you asked has been on my mind many times.”
    “We do, however, have a mystery on our hands. ”

    Over the years there have been many Mysteries that were Mysteries simply because they didn’t fit the prophecy picture i had been taught or had gleaned on my own. The answer to that dilemma i’ve learned is this…….we must adjust our ideas to the Word of God instead of adjusting God’s Word to Our Ideas.

    That’s why prophecy is so rewarding and frustrating…..back to the drawing board…..sometimes one simple piece that doesn’t fit can erase years and years of study.
    Rewarding, because an admission of wrong understanding opens the door to powerful revelation from God and His Word.
    Frustrating because of all the intense work that seems to have been for naught, but Never is our study in God’s Word for naught, it will always net some good thing in our spirit.

    The reason i hold so strongly now to Shorttrib/Prewrath is because for the over fourteen years i’ve believed such, i’ve not found ONE Mystery Text, or One Piece of Prophecy that Doesn’t Fit or completely agree with it. During these fourteen years, all i find is more and more powerful scriptures in Absolute Agreement, and they always just seem to grow more Profoundly Convincing every time I’m shown more of them.

    Even after all that still, over and over and Over Again, being shown such seemingly insurmountable evidence of the accuracy of Shorttrib/Prewath, i would never be so presumptuous to think i couldn’t be wrong……..i surely could be.

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  24. Thank-you for the links Shortribber and the time it must have taken to debate the opposing views.

    Rob you said.
    “If the assumption being discussed above is correct wouldn’t it make sense that the next sign we are looking for is the appearance of the two witnesses of whom we know with certainty the length of their ministry from Revelation 11 – 1260 days?”

    Maybe it coincides with the AOD , the expulsion of Satan from the heavenliness and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit 😉
    From the little that I’ve read on the links I’m still wet behind the ears. So don’t mind me, I’m learning.

    \o/

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  25. Okay… Shortribber… the problem I found was that I could see where Christ died in the middle of the 7, however did the 7 continue or did it get stopped leaving a remaining 3 1/2 years? My first thought is that it would have continued to Stephen, but maybe it was actually stopped… Also what if the witnesses some how relate to the old and new covenant… Or Judaism and Christianity, instead of 2 actual people. If the last 7 was stopped in the middle with a remaining 3 1/2 years, then those would be actual years then left… I’ve thought that the 1260 days could possibly be separate from the 7 and relate to 1260 years instead of 1260 actual days… Especially as it relates to Revelation 13, but in all honesty that is why I threw it out to this website…

    I want to seek and know the truth, and I believe that all of us want to know the truth, I am confident that God will answer our prayers and show us the truth. If we seek we will find…

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  26. “Okay… Shortribber… the problem I found was that I could see where Christ died in the middle of the 7, however did the 7 continue or did it get stopped leaving a remaining 3 1/2 years?”
    The answer i am becoming more and more convinced…………is………..both…..Both are true.
    This may be a bit complicated, but, there is a prophetic principle that Seems evident; evidently, God has allowed or provided for several layers of fulfillment to many prophecies.
    It also is apparent that among the layers is One Primary Event or Fulfillment, surrounded by or situated among others less significant. This principle is/has been used by God, IMO, to distract or delay attempts by the Loser to interfere with God’s plans.

    So……

    ” I’ve thought that the 1260 days could possibly be separate from the 7 and relate to 1260 years instead of 1260 actual days”

    This is correct too i believe……there has been Layering fulfillments of 1260 Days as years…..AND….there Will be……1260 Actual days to Yet Fulfill in the End also.

    Now the first question that is natural is this……..If God gives us a Distinct amount of TIME in any said prophecy, how can we Understand Those Times if the Times overlap, Adding More TIME.
    Actually it’s not that complicated if you’ll understand that God’s Word is Eternal and not Limited by Time…………In other words……..the Times He Gives are Just Multidimensional.

    That is evident not only in reference to Time but also in God’s description of Elijah for example…..Using John the Baptist as an example and still an expectation of him again in the Final End.

    “My first thought is that it would have continued to Stephen, but maybe it was actually stopped”

    So……….Both are true………..and the Primary 3.5 years that Pertain to the End, yet await fulfillment.

    “what if the witnesses some how relate to the old and new covenant… Or Judaism and Christianity, instead of 2 actual people.”

    Also true possibly…..Judaism or the Old Covenant could be reflected or Represented by the 144,000…and of course, Christianity by the Church……….But……..Layered in to the prophecy Could Include to Leading Prophets……One representing Each group……maybe……Elijah,representing the 144,000……and Enoch representing the Church……………………….or………………………Joshua and Zerubbabel.
    Speculation about the Two witnesses though doesn’t impact Shorttrib/Prewrath timeline expectations at all……..just things that seem possible i think.

    “I want to seek and know the truth, and I believe that all of us want to know the truth, I am confident that God will answer our prayers and show us the truth. If we seek we will find…”

    Y’got this one right too 🙂

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  27. Oh and, there is, it seems apparently another Layer of Fulfillment in what has been already suggested in the beginning about a Seven from 1967 till 2015 also.

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  28. I have a theory that will not be taken seriously by most students of prophecy. I do believe that the final 7 was stopped halfway at the Cross and that we have 3.5 years left. But I believe that the final 3.5 years will start with the return of Jesus and not before.

    Now put the stones down! 🙂

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  29. Hi Rick, you know when you speak of multi-dimensional layers with respect to ‘ times ‘ and Gods eternal word, it fascinates me like never before as it portrays a spiritual reality so deeply beautiful. in my small finite mind words like germinate and fruition come the top for now. tribber you are the man imo that Yahweh is using to open us up to’ this aspect ‘of His higher love – wonderful insight my friend, thank you for the blessing / confirmation that it sheds on His magnifigance! Gods love is shining upon us here./\/\/\/\ Blossom lay some sunshine on me……..chase my blues away

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  30. dude, how many frrapps have you had?…[if i may be so forward],…….just kidding. i just thought maybe your drinkin’ them ffrapps that colleen left aside. Coll i told ya you kin lay off the frappss but pleeze,’ don’t leave them out in the open where vic can git at ’em!’ Geeze LOUISE!

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  31. vic ole boy, i out here teetering on the brink over your concept,….and i’m in search…..of frapps! This may be too much for me!! i mean multi-dimensional realities are one thing, but this here idear of sum sorta transposition of time off into unknown territory ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,” can a guy get a fraap around here”?!!!

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  32. vic my sense of humor went for a ride on that one, in fun only….sorry for gettin’ so crazy. i mean absolutely no disrespect what so ever, and i truthfully can’t wait to know of your trying to understand the word [like you said] in this mysterious piece of prophecy. my problem is that i am guilty of being frapp- happy. i confess and ask for your forgiveness if i went a bit overboard.

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  33. Although I like to speculate about multi-dimensions, (we in the 3rd and the spirit world in the 4th/5t or wherever), I like to keep the prophetic discussions only in the Bible as any more information will lead to error. The Bible will always explain itself. You are forgiven Tony.
    I am just getting some material together before I say more.

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  34. That’s great Vic and we look forward to what you are going to share. None of us have”attained” the fulness or perfection { yet} and lie to ourselves if we think we have.I heed Paul’s words daily.

    “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”

    My prayer is that we will love each other enough to voice a concern, a red flag , or even if necessary a “rebuke” but the most important of all is to keep this as our yardstick 🙂

    Unity.
    Humility.
    One mind.
    Meekness.
    One accord.
    Bond of peace.

    Phl 2:2
    Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

    Eph 4:1

    I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

    With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

    Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    Eph 4:16
    From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    Eh Tony it’s cold now so switch to the Latte’s 🙂 or not!!! {Sorry guys, just trying to lighten the mood around here.}

    Powerful quote by Shorttribber- “……there has been Layering fulfillments of 1260 Days as years…..AND….there Will be……1260 Actual days to Yet Fulfill in the End also.”

    YES!!! ..soon and very soon.

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  35. “I have a theory that will not be taken seriously by most students of prophecy. I do believe that the final 7 was stopped halfway at the Cross and that we have 3.5 years left. But I believe that the final 3.5 years will start with the return of Jesus and not before.

    Now put the stones down! 🙂 ”

    Sounds very interesting……..no need for stones…..lay it on us, because, like i said, that idea sounds Very possible and VERY interesting.

    Just remember too….I’m the AntiNewager……it’s filth, vomit and deception are incredibly dangerous.
    Just remember, New Age Vomit is a Perversion of Certain Complicated realities. One example is the study and Christian understanding of Astronomy and how Mystic Puke has Perverted the Beauty and Reality of astronomy by astrology.

    Now, as far as the multidimensional principles that apply to prophecy, well, it just exists in God’s Eternal realm. Yes, we live in a three dimensional world, but His Word Doesn’t.
    It’s just the way it is…….there are many examples in prophecy.

    Now Tony, remember, I’m not talking about Expanding our Consciences into Doctrinal Gumbies…..easy does it….God’s WORD is our Limitation. God’s Layers of Prophecy are restricted by and to God’s Word and Doctrine Alone.

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  36. nice explanation tribber, and yes i’m completely on the the true reality of your drift here. i have been clear thru alternative realities outside of Gods revelation oh so long ago,….and back in the early 80’s constance cumbeys book[s] grounded me back to THE REAL WORD OF TRUTH and back to the ONE AND ONLY REAL JESUS, the Jesus i grew up on// and like i spoke to you about; when i was 17 yrs old and i went on my” appointment w/ knowledge, vision quest” in an native american peyote ceremony – Jesus and His biblical call on my life blasted through all else.It has been Jesus Christ son of God ever since for me. It is Him alone that my eyes are set upon. New age hocus- pocus is substance-less to me as i am i love w/ the lamb of God and traveling on the crossroad,sometimes distracted by things to interpret biblicaly,…but never letting go of Him who paid the price for my sins. Cumbeys work helped me to further understand what took place when Jesus made His move on my life 4 yrs. prior at age 17. So, on n on i go, as seconds tick the time out,…theres so much left to know and i’m on the road to find out! The cross-road. I love and highly respect you Vic, thats for sure,….looking forward to your thoughts on the subject and how. it kinda seems as tho it fits in w/ the idea tribber put forth concerning layers of fulfillment! p.s. that link i put up to nora roths work on this subject matter is imo exciting if anyone wishes to take a peak. Blessings folks…i love what you said berry blue ,……something beyond measure!!!!! i believe it!/////// you all should of seen the dazzling display of youthful exuberance that little ole’ maggie put on for me this morning,….sooo playful and sooo cute!,…it was sam ALL over again! Praise God – and Thank You Lord!

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  37. Good Day Sunshine! you talk about layers of fulfillment…it was ‘mag’nificent to see maggie so’ full ‘ of the spirit bringing me memories of sam and more…! with the eyes of a child, you will see

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  38. ” I think God is going to do something here that is beyond measure… ”

    Hey BerryBlueBerry I said that in a e-mail to Vic { Nov 19 at 4:19 PM}…well I used my own words and had more “!!!!!!!” included. WHOOHOO I agree 100%!

    Shortribber you said…
    “Just remember too….I’m the AntiNewager……it’s filth, vomit and deception are incredibly dangerous.”
    I pray that you will be bold enough to expose that at other places { I deleted the rest of my comment here} Unfortunately I can’t do that right now as my posting privileges seem to be ” suspended ” so just in case I’m labelled as one that has ” gone out from among us ” the Lord has called me to dust my feet off 🙂 I love how He does that!

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  39. Unity.
    Humility.
    One mind.
    Meekness.
    One accord.
    Bond of peace.
    great yardstick! 🙂
    i am on board with all the things that are pointing toward this going beyond what we ask or think! that is why i ascribe to the understanding that there are layers upon layers and overlapping upon overlapping fulfillments that we are looking at. i believe that final 3 1/2 is coming up soon with the aod as it’s kickoff but what particular 7 are we in that will let us calculate when that final 3 1/2 begins? is that one going on right now and the aod will begin even as early as next year or the next one after that? i do not know—but i think we are close-very close to knowing. i think the Lord closely guards His “sevens” to hide them in plain sight just to make us look more (humbly) closely—the looking and watching honors Him as it is His Command and more than us actually figuring this out is the Obeying that we are doing right now to Watch! (so He will tell His secrets to those in whisper range). i am intrigued and a bit overwhelmed by it all. and i think that is right where i am supposed to be………..so i’ll watch all the more closely with the open Word of God before me as i know yall are doing too. maybe we are looking a bit like the scribes that herod called on to go look at the scriptures and see where the King was going to be born. i imagine them woke up in the middle of the night pouring over their Bibles just like we are doing. (and the King was in the “neighborhood”-just a short piece down the road-not far away at all….we are not far off either! oh yeah…..very very exciting! know wonder we love You Jesus—who else can make us come out of our daily round of earthly life and “go outside the camp in our minds and hearts” and look so intently at the door in heaven where You are standing ready to call us up?

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  40. take me away, from the power of my ambition,……………am i very wrong, to try and close my ears to the sound they play so loud,………..in hiding in you Lord, i have a mind of my own; set on Jesus.

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  41. As I said, I think Jesus is gonna start the final 3.5 years with His return to the mount of Olives where He ascended 2000 years ago. Let me start by saying that the secret rapture theory has left me cold for a long time. You know, the theory that says that Jesus will rapture the saint away SECRETLY and those left behind will not know what happened. Now I am not talking about pre-trib or pre-wrath. Both these views believe that Jesus will return invisible and the church will be taken away for a time with Him. A time later the saints return with Him on the clouds in visible form and Armageddon starts. The only difference between these views is the timing, pre-7 year or mid to post-7 year.

    Jesus will not return secretly, not now, not ever. He will come back and every eye shall see Him. But He will not return at Armageddon. He will return before Armageddon. I believe He will return and be in Jerusalem 3.5 years before Armageddon and the whole world will know it.

    More later.

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  42. “Called out! This is the time and the purpose we have been called to, and the LORD has been preparing us for!”

    ISAIAH 55:11
    2 TIMOTHY 2:3

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  43. i agree vic about your point about the rapture. by using the word secret in my post i want you to know i do not advocate a secret rapture (until recently had never even hear of such a thing) but i do know that it is the obedient that hear His Still Small Voice that gives us the knowing and understanding to interpret the times we are in and what we need to know to do as He calls us to in the difficulty that goes with such times on earth. we are there! these are the last days and the Spirit is/will fill us in—even as in mark 13:11 for example. so nice to see your posts when you have that opportunity 🙂

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  44. “Jesus will not return secretly, not now, not ever. He will come back and every eye shall see Him. But He will not return at Armageddon. He will return before Armageddon. I believe He will return and be in Jerusalem 3.5 years before Armageddon and the whole world will know it.”
    “More later”

    Kinda thought that’s where you were headed with it…can ‘t wait for what ya got to elaborate….was just talking to Tony on the phone about it……good stuff.

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  45. just clarifying if you did not know my position 😉 this is a place of Grace vic–you personally see to that because that is your heart–and i know it! so thanks for this site that lets us come and glean from one another (in the Love of the Lord). i have not thought before about what you are speaking about the 3 1/2 years remaining–would like to hear that one out too.

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  46. Friends, this is a long comment, but this is why I believe that Jesus may start the final 3.5 years with His return the same way the clock stopped with His death. The original post was at the following link:

    https://unsealedprophecy.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/so-when-will-we-see-the-gogmagog-battle/

    To recap, in the other posts I have tried to proof from Scripture that the Eze 38/39 battle can not happen before the AoD as Ezekiel states clearly that after the Lord destroyed the armies of Gog, the whole of Israel will know that He is God and He will not hide His face from them anymore. We know that will happen only when Jesus returns and Israel sees Him whom they have pierced and mourn over Him. When this happens friends, Israel will never have to flee again as they were warned by Jesus in the Gospels.

    One thing the Lord showed me is that the traditional “Left Behind / Pre-Trib” view of end time prophecy is full of possible flaws. Now by saying that I am not implying that I have all the answers. I learn daily and has been proven wrong many times. So read what I have to say, eat the meat, spit out the bones and tell me about those bones.

    I am going to ask you a question: When will Jesus return in physical form?

    99% will say that He will return at Armageddon fight the armies, touch down on the mount of Olives and start the sheep/goat judgment. How accurate is this view? Lets look at some Scripture:

    Rev 6:12-14 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places
    Rev 6:15-17 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, andevery free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    This happens when the 6th seal is opened and I believe with it, the rapture. Now what do we read in these verses? Does it sound like the people does not have a clue on what is happening? No my friends, they know exactly what is happening. They are fleeing and hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. They know Jesus has come for His Church.

    Now lets take this a little further:

    Eze 38:19-20 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
    Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

    Do you see the similarities between these two events? Great earthquakes, mountains moving, wrath of God/The Lamb. And the most fascinating one for me; ALL the men on the face of the earth will shake at His presence, at Magog and at the 6th seal.

    Now the more I look at this and study it, the more likely it is for me that the Lord Jesus will return at the opening of the 6th seal in physical form, destroy Israels enemies (Islam) at the Gog war and fulfill Eze 38/39, Rev 6:12-17. The world will know, acknowledge and flee from His wrath, and that includes the antichrist. I fail to see any Scripture that says Jesus can not be physically in Jerusalem with His Church when He pours out His wrath on this world.

    The wrath of God is gonna last for an unknown period, maybe 1260 days. I believe this is were the human race will perform their greatest sin. They will know that the Lamb of God is in Jerusalem. Most of them would have probably seen Him, they will know judgment is here, angels would have warned them,the two whitnesses, the 144000… but STILL they will not repent. And then comes Armageddon:

    Psa 2:1-5 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. (9) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.

    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    These Scriptures indicate that the antichrist and the kings of the earth will plan to march up towards Israel to make war with the Lamb. They will know He is there. Armageddon will be a battle between the rulers and Jesus and in their anger and rage they will think that they will be able to kill Jesus. It sounds foolish, but they will most probably think that they can nuke Him with His plagues from the earth.

    And now for the final point; Joel talks about the dreadful day of the Lord, a terrible battle. Most (including myself) always read it as the battle of Armageddon. But no, it is not. See the following:

    Joe 3:1-2 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

    Did you see it? Were will this battle against the nations be? Aha, the valley of Jehoshaphat! The valley of Jehoshaphat is on the eastern side of Jerusalem, next to the mount of Olives and the valley of Meggido are miles op north from Jerusalem.

    So in conclusion, I believe Joel is talking about the Gog/Magog battle. That battle will be won by the Lord Jesus in the valley of Jehoshaphat. Jesus will stay in Israel with His covenant people who will mourn over Him. He will restore them and so the whole of Israel shall be saved. The world will know what happened and will know that the Lord is God. There is no secret rapture and a physical Jesus will fight Gog in full view of the world.

    And it is totally possible that Jesus can start the prophetic clock with His return.

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  47. thanx for the closer look at it vic…will try to digest it through the evening at least and such…sounds like a good way for things ti go as far as i’m concerned 🙂

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  48. All of this new stuff is not understandable to me just yet.You have been working hard i see w/ scripture and i admire that, and it seems to be characteristic of you which i am truly impressed with. Nice job,hats off and bless you in your studies. i will try again. You have been a busy bee….very awesome! Wow! Thanks for sharing. It does seem as though what your saying makes sense………a very unusual position indeed!! Good for you vic, this is amazing*! your my hero. \o/…. rock on! shucks for a while there andrea was my hero,….why i’ll be shucky darn. i’ll have to talk this over with my friends, Eb and Flo – don’t you worry, we’re gonna git to the bottom of this yet,…you’ll see vic.

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  49. Please keep my nephew’s in Prayer, My sis in law Trisil , Passed away early this morning, she fought a long hard battle with cancer, she is now at rest, Her boys are now going to have to learn how to live without her, its going to be so tough on them and her grandchildren..
    Please keep my cousin’s husband in Prayer Eugene is in hospital in CCU, Thank you for the Prayers..

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  50. The Lord God will keep them Loop, the Lord God will keep them. so sorry for the loss of Trisil – cancer hurts, thats what got my moms body, but my heavenly father is He who has my moms spirit and that is ultimate reality and my mom is still very present as is my dog sam whose spirit continues to bring me sunshine and love. Trust His love to sustain you all. i will remember you folks in my daily prayers. tell everyone to believe. God bless Sam and Eugene and Noah and Trisil’s family and the peace of God be with you all……it won’t be long now Loop, before our King returns and things are going to *change*. You stay strong in the Lord and allow Gods spirit in you to bless all the family

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  51. sorry for your family’s loss loop. Jesus said: Come unto Me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest…..may each of you find the Rest and Comfort of God in Christ Jesus Who bears our burdens-Who is familiar with all our griefs and sorrows-and lends us His Strength. God be near……amen.

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  52. My heart hurts for your loss Loop and am grieved at how many of these there have been lately 😦 I will pray for you.

    Vic , boetie, I totally hear what you are saying. Let me re-cap just a point or two and by so doing I can clarify that for myself { that’s how I learn} and by asking questions we are able to gain a better understanding. I love that iron sharpens iron and thank-you for your love,humility and Christlike servanthood’s heart! It shows!

    I totally understand why you would suggest that because Christ fulfilled the FIRST three and a half years on earth, so too would He fulfil the LAST three and a half years in His SECOND VISIBLE presence and that would NOT { His presence } be in His saints , correct?

    Next question.{Don’t mind me guys , even it makes me look stupid for asking, I love being humiliated …it keeps me humble and the Lord uses that to shape me into even more godliness } 😉

    The BEAST is given power to overcome the saints for 42 months so that would { then } have Satan PRESENT on earth, correct ? If so , then that would have Satan and Christ here on earth for the whole duration of the 3 and a 1/2 years? t o g e t h e r ?

    I will wait on asking about the 42 month ministry of the two Witnesses and the Wrath of God that the saints are not appointed to a littl later.

    Dankie ou Boet!!

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  53. for those in Christ even when things go wrong they go right, and in the darkness there will always be a light,…and even in our disconnectedness there is a unity [that is forming], like a germ in the seed grows and like the river meets the ocean and like the disorganized elements of the catapillars body, reorganizes, and then gently emerges from its silk palace, we will finally be freed to get back home. Yes, we are being raised on Love……..His Love,……..let us remain hopeful in light of His Mag’nifigance…….sam i AM!, here to stay and here to play n pray for that “happy day”. and with the eyes of a child you will see

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  54. Tony I’m not able to view the clip you posted. Can we please not derail this thread or let the discussion get buried.Not a rebuke just in case it’s received as such. I believe this could be one of the most important threads here and it can get a littl frustrating when we get off track:)
    Love and blessings all round 🙂

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  55. agreed hisown. i am here to learn and this is a great place for that. i have basically the same questions you are posing above. there is some of what vic wrote that i can see but some questions linger. time is telling the story and meanwhile i am so pleased to be here watching with all of you folks. you are among the many good reasons i come here hisown (there are several) because you are so gifted with the Word of God and have a heart of encouragement that you share freely (so thank you and thank You Jesus Who has made this so!) don’t find that just any ole place 😉 …..

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  56. sorry gang, thats me allright – touched by something or other. colleen replace the capitol V with a small v in the youtube address and enjoy when you have a quiet sit. be blessed, its john michael talbot singing , “there was a time”. i hope that small v does the trick!

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  57. The idea you’ve suggested Vic is interesting as i said. A system so very uncommon as you’ve mentioned should not be disregarded, the complication in proving the soundness is always the time it takes to recognize any conflict among any texts of scripture.
    The more thought i’ve given it, the more it would be best i think if you share any Known text that Seems at all as a weak link in the idea?
    That’s the best place to start…..and also….are you able to provide in any greater detail to the system?
    Does time allow you to do that?

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  58. Just on observation… And one in which lead me to Daniel 9 and what I found… Compare Matthew 24:15 to Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20… Same event!!! What is different about each passage description? The Abomination… In 70 AD when the temple was destroyed, Jerusalem was also destroyed, and millions of Jews were killed, worse then the holocaust… Also by some accounts of history… Not a single Christian was killed.. They all recognized the surrounding of armies and or the Abomination and they fled… That passage also says that the Jews will be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Jerusalem was left desolate… I’m not sure where or how the Abomination fits into that time period… But I believe that there is something more there that we’re not getting…
    Another interesting time in History is the role of the Catholic Church, and I think it was in 538 AD when the Roman Catholic Church was given an army… And from 538 – 1798 is the period of Inquisition where millions of Christians and Jews were also persecuted and killed. That period is around 1260 years, it was Napoleon who came in and took the pope and put a stop to the power of the Roman Catholic Church. What is also interesting during that last part of the 1700’s is the a new Nation was given birth one with “Eagles Wings” that allowed religious freedom and a place for the Jews to escape to… (July 4th 1776 Birth of USA)… As we all know Israel became a nation in 1948, and God has been bringing the Jews back to the land since then… So, there may be many layers which I would not deny, but as far as what to look for next… I’m thinking signs in the sun and moon and stars… I do however have an itching to figure the Abomination out… I do believe also that Zechariah 14 could be a key… Jerusalem is once again surrounded and invaded, but only partially then Christ comes and avenges…

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  59. One more interesting observation… I think that it was in 167BC where Antiochus Epiphanes sacrifice a pig on the altar of God in the Temple. Thus an Abominable event, and one in which the disciples and Jewish leaders at that time would have remembered…It was the Maccabean Revolt led by Mattathias ben Johanan that put an end to Antiochus. It also took 2300 days for the temple to be cleansed. That celebration of the cleansing of the temple is celebrated by the Jews every year… Known as Hanukkah…

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  60. My wife and I are expecting a baby any moment. So I may not be able to post much… But I wanted to throw these thoughts out…

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  61. All great stuff to be reminded of about the dates and things….Can’t have a much clearer layer than that you’ve mentioned. Also Great about the baby too 🙂

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  62. Oh babies? I love it!! BerryBlueBerry I love the time you have put into your study and will read through your comment a little more depth as time permits.
    Please hug the soon to be momma:)Prayers and blessings.

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  63. Berry blue what do you know, or think of the upcoming 4 blood moons supposed to be happening on the feast days of the Lord in 2014/2015,…as far as signs in the skys ?some prophecy teachers point out that Jesus fulfilled the spring feast at His first appearing and we should expect that He will fulfill the fall feasts [shadows of things to come – appointed times] at His second appearance.

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  64. Sorry for the delayed response.

    Loop, you and yours are in my prayers.

    I am so happy for you and your wife Mr Berry. And thanks for the interesting study. I will have to go deeper into it. We are onto something.

    Cole, good question Sis. Clearly the saint will be given over to the beast for 42 months but according to my understanding Jesus will return at the 6th seal as everyone on earth will know the Lamb of God is here. I fail to understand how this all fit into a 3.5 year time frame. Boetie raak dom. 🙂

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  65. ” Clearly the saint will be given over to the beast for 42 months but according to my understanding Jesus will return at the 6th seal as everyone on earth will know the Lamb of God is here. I fail to understand how this all fits into a 3.5 year time frame.”

    “how this all fits ”

    The word “This” what is meant by it? Do you mean, all the antichrist events against the Saints for 42 months? Trumpets? two witnesses? The mark?

    The “Fit” regarding the seals is clearly explained with the Shorttrib/Prewrath model.

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  66. I don’t know if i read this here, or if some of the messages i’ve been listening to lately had me asking this: How would the armies of the earth know they were fighting “the” Jesus unless he was here, announced, and visibly, physically here to be fought with? If i read it earlier, forgive me, it’s a long thread to read back through, but i was wondering about the wording of that particular scripture that says that they will all be drawn to Megiddo to fight Jesus. That might help Vic’s argument that he will be here at the opening of the sixth seal. If this has been discussed, please disregard! I’m like Tony, just trying to keep up and happy to be here amongst you deep thinkers!

    Scott

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  67. don’t know how long you’ve been visiting us here Scott, but I don’t think I’ve said howdy and welcome b’fore…..so…..howdy n’welcome 🙂

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  68. Scott, if you are “borntowatch” then my prayers scare me LOL { in a good way }….The Lord laid you and your wife on my heart yesterday. If not then WELCOME here. You are among a group of men and woman that love the Lord and His Word above all else 🙂
    Agape and blessings!

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  69. I’ve been here for awhile actually, just don’t comment too much! I’ve actually corresponded with Rob a few times. I came over from FP when Wickus and Adamantine started this site! Thanks for the welcome anyway, I’ll accept it gladly!! Now I’ll go back to my chair and listen! I’ll throw my 2 cents in here and there. Thanks again.

    Scott

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  70. well don’t go back to your chair too fast now. there’s been a lot more time that I’ve spent in silence too I guess…for me it’s mostly a time thing.
    But sometimes there’s an opening in the madness of the time crunch for me….lately I’ve had one of those windows of time to post…hope you can stick around for posting too.

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  71. Hi Scott,……….precisely! and as you can most likely see, there is a lot of love to be found here – and high quality individuals with wonderful gifts in the Lord, all of us yearning for completion in Him and through Him. called aside from the beaten path…the wide and broad road, turned on to Truth and trustingly excited as we watch and wait for His return. Yes Jesus is coming back for it is written! blessings to you Scott,…blessings to you. I sense something quite genuine in you, thanks and welcome. So glad you surfaced

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  72. boy do those blood moons landing on the Lords feast days, captivate me with a sense of cosmic wonder* blessings to you n yours berry blue,……there is nothing on earth, like a baby! Wow*

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  73. “cosmic wonder*”
    Come on Tony, I know you ain’t no New Age Astro NUT…..Just that kinda lingo makes me want to Throw up some Big Chunks………forgive me please for being so graphic.

    You throw language out there like that to freak us out…..but we’re freaked out enough just trying to live on earth and increase our Understanding Properly, With God’s ONLY Holy Word and Holy Spirit as our Standard and Light……notice how I said that without saying “gaining more Awareness”? Sure hate that Stupid word, “Awareness”.

    Luv ya bro 🙂

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  74. like i said brother,…i know your OUT THERE somewhere,……..keep on truckin’ my friend, in the Lord. [p.s.] “cosmic’ wonder” can bee seen in a new born babies eyes, as well as in the working of bees,….it is all around, if we could but perceive……..i mean the grass is quietly photosynthesizing and it is our father Yahweh who pours forth His still small voice in that quietness. be blessed brother!………………………..”.listen.”………………………………………….and you will hear, a new sound comin’ on, while the old one disappears. Fear not to delight in the beauty and the magnificence of all creation {His handiwork}, from microscopic to macrocosmic ALL PRAISE AND HONOR GOES TO HIM – and Him alone. Awareness is a beautiful word in and of itself as it is connected to The Kingdom of God.

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  75. …the cosmos belongs to the Lord and it is wonderous! Believers, keep on believing…..seekers, keep on Seeking….Worlds, keep on turning……………till we reach the higher ground, and know as we are known! sam’s not dead….he’s ALIVE!, and its truly maggie-nificent. this garden uni-verse vibrates complete…some may get a sound so sweet. believers, keep on Believing! Faith is the substance,….and the key!

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  76. Thank-you for bringing the thread back on track Scott 😉

    I was reading through a few texts on the ” GLORY” of the Lord and found some fascinating little gems I’ve missed before but will keep that for another discussion.

    I understand why Vic proposes that Christ will fulfill the LAST three and a half years on earth {seeing that He is the author and the finisher of our faith}

    My question’s still remain unanswered and will get to these some time tonight as time permits.

    But for now.

    Mat 25:31

    When the Son of man………….>>>>> shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall …………………..>>>>>>he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

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  77. that song was absolutely lovely,…a prayer indeed. Lord you are the potter, i am the clay. Please have you way with me and allow me to die to self and eat daily from the tree of Life, reborn in the SPIRIT

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  78. praying for answers to questions and comments scott,……trusting the Spirit of truth. ….and vic , the neville brothers have an album called, MY BROTHERS KEEPER!, that i find powerful in praise and worship to JESUS

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  79. colleen me and maggie are going out to listen to the grass photosynthesize for a while and when we return, i can listen to the abovesong, its all abou you, Jesus

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  80. ” but i was wondering about the wording of that particular scripture that says that they will all be drawn to Megiddo to fight Jesus. That might help Vic’s argument that he will be here at the opening of the sixth seal.”
    and
    “So did anyone have any thoughts on my post earlier?”

    Yes there is an answer to this about Christ’s Coming at the Sixth seal….it is clearly and rationally defined by the Shorttrib/Prewrath system….are you familiar with it….I’ve been intending to help clarify that exact point.

    “My question’s still remain unanswered and will get to these some time tonight as time permits.

    But for now.

    Mat 25:31

    When the Son of man………….>>>>> shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall …………………..>>>>>>he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    This I will answer too Colleen if you want.

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  81. “Just a quick thread derailment; What good Christian artists and music can you guys recommend. No Christian rock please! ”

    Yes ….the Absolute Best you can Listen to is Harvest, “Send Us to The Word” and Harvest “Voices”

    g
    Guaranteed!

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  82. Vic, also i really like bob dylans 1981 album, ” Slow train comin'”!,…songs like, “precious angel” n “i believe in you” etc Also Ray Boltz’s music is powerful and like i have mentioned before, Paul Balouche! //// i enjoyed the music colleen and tribber{ Harvest } Excellent!, thanks. Now to the rest…p.s. my favourite song on the Brothers Keeper CD is…Fearless!, and the one about, I’m gonna witness to the Love— where in the song, the holy ghost starts to move in!!! ….my mother and my aunt virginia said, Love God with all that in ya! Nothing like it! however there is a bob dylan song that the Neville Bros do called, ” With God on our side” – about hypocrisy, and Arron Nevilles voice….gets it! its beautiful and reverent. i hope you find your way to it. be blessed! p s …its not rock music.,……although you do get some powerful jungle beats with some of the Neville bros stuff, let me tell ya, not only on the Brothers Keeper album but also some strong powerful beats on the, Yellow Moon CD. i happen to love both of them CD’s

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  83. Oh my goodness andrea,…oh my goodness, i had to find my own way to endless song and it was worth it!,….la la la la la. all of them songs were quite NICE! thankyou/ blessyou,*….i kept thinking that was you singing that! i kept thinking that was colleen singing that other song, Its all about you Jesus!, and i thought that was tribber them other songs!!!

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  84. “Mat 25:31

    When the Son of man………….>>>>> shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall …………………..>>>>>>he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:”

    Remember, this is a parable, among other parables Christ speaks of regarding His Coming and His Kingdom. it is meant to be understood in the Nonliteral Sense.
    Here, is the timing and the fulfillment of this Parable, IMO.
    Rev 12
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,………………. Now…………….. is come salvation, and strength,…………………… and the kingdom………… of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    This is when the Separation Begins………..And Power and Presence of God in the Saints.
    The Loser will be on Borrowed Time On the DAY OF THE LORD, The Great Trib is the First Day of the DAY OF THE LORD….and HIS Day is 1,000 Years Long.
    The Day of the Lord’s Wrath will Occur AFTER 3.5 years of the Losers PHYSICAL destruction of the Saints and Christ’s Physical Return in the Clouds(Rapture).

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  85. Compare this….
    ““Mat 25:31

    When the Son of man………….>>>>> shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall …………………..>>>>>>he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

    with this….

    2thes.1
    “7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven……….. with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be………………… glorified in his saints,……………… and to be admired in all them that believe (because…………… our testimony…………… among you was believed) in that day.

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  86. andrea, that display of your excitement was every bit as wonderful as the video and music, which was attractively fantastic! thanks be to God! He’s comin’ back! and i’m sooo happy!

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  87. The Harvest – “The Blood of the Lamb” clip made me weep like a silly little girl. Loved the awesome reference to the 5 smooth stones.Love it!!

    Shortribber you said” The Day of the Lord’s Wrath will Occur AFTER 3.5 years of the Losers PHYSICAL destruction of the Saints and Christ’s Physical Return in the Clouds(Rapture).”

    Absolutely ! the 1260 days that saints are given over!

    We’ve been in preparation for this for some time now 🙂

    The “outcasting ” is…….so very close.

    On my face in humble adoration and awe.

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  88. Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.

    And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD’S, and he will give you into our hands.

    1Sa 17:47
    And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD’S, and he will give you into our hands.

    Wow…….

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  89. “Remember, this is a parable, among other parables Christ speaks of regarding His Coming and His Kingdom. it is meant to be understood in the Nonliteral Sense.
    Here, is the timing and the fulfillment of this Parable, IMO.
    Rev 12
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,………………. Now…………….. is come salvation, and strength,…………………… and the kingdom………… of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

    Exactly! The casting out and the “overcomes” song of victory!

    The reason I referenced that verse is because I had said this a few comments back.

    “I will wait on asking about the 42 month ministry of the two Witnesses and the Wrath of God that the saints are not appointed to a littl later.”

    Vic, this is a question for you boetie 🙂

    1} If Christ is here for the WHOLE 42 month trib then why would we be given over to the BEAST{ system } and for what purpose does that serve?

    2} If we are NOT appointed to wrath { as God’s word says we aren’t } , then WHERE are we during this time? are we ” hid” or raptured ?

    “Why, what and where” ? hhheee , typical questions a child would ask 🙂

    I will leave the two witnesses 42 month “ministry “for now.

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  90. vic, when i think of you, i think of the song by my close friend, niel young,….heart of gold. i declare them tears your sheddin’ will water your soul. thanks for it all………………..god bless you brother, see ya up at big sky!

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  91. i like stevie wonder,…theres a place in the sun, wheres theres room for everyone. ETC……….gotta keep on climbin’,……till i reach the higher ground! and i love van morrison,…ie.,into the mystic! etc….

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  92. not to distract….but whats this business about peters bones and the vatican,.///..aslo the mafia about to take out Francis which would bring in petres romanis; Peter the Roman in time for tribulation. Mystery Babylon at LARGE??? keep watch with an open mind in Christ JESUS. The Vatican Is EVIL as all hell, imo!

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  93. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5T_75rKNLE — one more vic and i’ll stop…one of the most beautiful songs i have ever heard sung as a prayer. (don’t want to distract–just bless you-bless you all). busy week with the holiday so i’ll say this now–i am thankful for you and for this site. God uses it to be a true source of blessing–for many. may the Lord God of heaven and earth pour out His Spirit upon you and your home that you may see His Power continue to work miracles that give His Great Name Glory–and bless your lives from the Abundance of His Riches in Christ Jesus!

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  94. Hey Tony,

    Just to clarify are you referring to the St Malachy prophecies . If not please disregard the next ” vent”.I believe Tom Horn believes in an Alien Anti- Christ or am I off base here?

    I quote Mr Sheep from back in Feb this year as we discussed this.

    “We know that the enemies deception will kick into high gear, and from the scripture above that he will be able to do things that appear to be like things that only God can do. We have been told in advance that these things will be false – and we are not to believe them. I have to wonder out loud if this whole Malachy business is one example of those things. It bothers me on many levels – one because it didn’t appear for centuries after its alleged author was dead, two it is fulfilled in the choices of men (men we know to be actively twisting the scripture, and for that pattern of willful sin we can discern that they have left themselves open to satanic influence and are certainly not among the elect), third its so called “fulfillment” when looking at the past often relies upon connecting the so-called “fulfiller” of the prophecy to arcane symbols or other convoluted mechanics to show an alleged “fulfillment” of the prophecy.”

    Chris Pinto exposes the deception 🙂

    A Jesuit cover up and a planned ” deception” as they try to ” convince ” the world ( and many Christians ) that the prophecy of St Malachy” is true!!

    Lord Jesus please give us greater discement in these days of great deception.

    Oh God help us to hear Thy voice alone!

    [audio src="http://www.noiseofthunder.com/storage/NOTR_POPE.RESIGNS_02.11.13.mp3" /]

    Part of the same discussion in Feb 🙂

    The road just got narrower for me 😦

    I mean like seriously guys, if we can’t discern the diabolical deception now, how are we going to stand when this come’s down?—->

    Rev 13:13 — And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    God ALOWS FALSE prophets to TEST us and that is exactly what is happening here!- to prove thee, to know what [was] in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

    We may want to take the time to pick up the Word of God ( the one that has paper and can turn pages ) and re-vist Deuteronomy – Chapter 13.

    The deception is workin 😦

    I praise God that we all love each other enough here to share the truth in love.

    I mean like seriously can someone say ” Agent provocateur”!!

    Oh I like that – the five “D”s 🙂

    God has shown me how “smooth and slithering” the enemy can really be . These past five years have been a ” boots on the ground ” battle and have prepared me in ways like none other.I praise God that He sure does work out all things for good. I praise His name for the pain, the betrayal’s and even the Judas’ in my life.

    So let me see if I understand this correctly. Could part of the ” diabolical deception” be a DISTRACTION and a DIVERSION ( am I shouting – sorry ) and a habitual DELUSIONAL scheme of the enemy as the next ” Pope ” ” leads and PROTECTS us from the persecution of the ” anti-christ”?

    Wait , I think this thread has just been officially derailed and pray that maybe this can be discussed in another post. I will let Vic or Rob decide that 🙂

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  95. Wow that thread will take me days to get through.Maybe we can take one point at a time and exhaust that first?

    Shorttribber , there is no need to convince me and I’m open to correction if you guys see me adhering to anything that the Holy Spirit does not bear witness too 🙂

    Andre , sjoe { Afrikaans for WHEW } that gives me the higgbiegibbies…not to be confused with the ” hillbillies ” laugh. Sorry for the silly…but the ” tension ” has been high lately. I wonder if we are about to witness another ” birth pang”!

    Maybe somebody else would like to ask a question or two because somehow I may be askin amiss?

    Back on track…I love it!!

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  96. part of prophecy studies is to look at whats going on and to discern,….and i do not trust the vatican – tom horn or no tom horn…st. malachy or no saint malachy…..i’m not jumpin’ to any conclusions about alien ac….the thought did not even cross my mind,…i see that by me mentioning petrus romanis-thats what sent you colleen, and rightfully so. whoops i didn’t need to use that name, although the guy in place to take francis place if something were to happen to francis is peter-somethin or other, from rome. furthermore, when that guy you mentioned,..tom horn…is saying alien, i think you can substitute the word demon – sounds more biblical thataway. just brought it up cause the mafia in rome is planning on taking francis out, and it got me wondering. we can let it go as we are on another subject,…my apologies, …truly i meant to post that comment of mine onto the other post, tho one before this one – sorry. please realize that i’m not trying to push any particular idea, just that i am suspicious,…..i bet i’m not the only one.?

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  97. …i’m now going to look at shorttribbers link to FP,…..thanks colleen and like some of em’ say,” peace out”, dude!

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  98. I’m going to kindly ask that this thread not be highjacked or derailed any further { other’s have spent hours and hours of research and contending }

    You said ” furthermore, when that guy you mentioned,..tom horn…is saying alien, i think you can substitute the word demon – sounds more biblical that away.”

    Well I can tell you with 100% certaintity that a few of us here { including Vic } do NOT believe that the AC could be an” Alien”. This is a very dangerous diabolical deception.

    @ the 11;15 point in this clip , this is where Tom Horn looses ALL his credibility for me and pray that other’s will guard their minds from this!

    Just to clarify { so that there is no misunderstanding } I believe 100% that when Satan is cast out and the pit is opened all h*** is going to break loose but do have a very real concern for this new” postmodern prophecy paradigm shift “{ deceptive} teachings which I believe Horn is into.

    This is so very dangerous and pray that those whom you say may also be ” suspicious,” well , let the viewer decide.!

    A good read is here 🙂
    http://herescope.blogspot.ca
    MONDAY, NOVEMBER 04, 2013
    The Resurrection of Pagan Gods
    Mingling Pagan Mythology with God’s Truth

    The Rise of End-Time Occultism, Part 7
    Part 1: Homo Nephilus
    Part 2: The “Return” of the Alien Super Soldier”
    Part 3: Techno-Dimensional Prayer Combat
    Part 4: The Second Coming of Apollo
    Part 5: Nephilim are from Mars, Fallen Angels are from Krypton
    Part 6: Metaphysical Mysticism Masquerading as Science

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  99. “Wow that thread will take me days to get through.Maybe we can take one point at a time and exhaust that first?
    Shorttribber , there is no need to convince me and I’m open to correction if you guys see me adhering to anything that the Holy Spirit does not bear witness too 🙂

    The thing is, it would take a long time to take it all in….don’t think it’s even possible, but what I’ve managed to get from it is really incredible. The points we need to discuss i’ll put in a number form and we can go from there.
    1st…..Look at Abrahams sacrifice….and what he asks of God…..”How Shall I KNOW?”…in other words…How will you CONFIRM this.
    2nd…..He is then commanded by God to take a THREE year old Heifer (Red Heifer we now know) and By Type and shadow comparisons probably 3.5 Year old Heifer……and the three year old She Goat and a Three year old Ram…and the pigeons.
    3rd…..He………….Divides them In the “Midst”.
    4rd…..then while ….AWAKE…..Protects them, driving the Fowls away……..UNTIL he SLEEPS…WHILE he SLEEPS……………The Judgment Pot and the Lamp………..BETWEEN the TWO PARTS.

    I’ll stop there for now……..

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  100. Remember….Abraham is a Type and Shadow of God the Father….And Isaac a Type and Shadow of Christ.
    And the Red Heifer is a Type and Shadow of the………….. Confirmation……………..of God’s Mercy And Promises in Christ BY the New and Everlasting Covenant.

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  101. Let me add this too. An Idea,View or System of Eschatology should be Based Primarily on Sound Theological Doctrine, not by just what works out Mathematically.
    For example…..a system that puts the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross OUTSIDE of the 70 weeks Proper……is To Me anyway, a suspect and inferior system of Prophecy. And that is exactly what a full 7 year future Trib requires…….absolutely no way to avoid it.
    Most of us here agree with the Shorttrib/3.5 year system…and that’s good, but it’s important to know it’s Theologically Sound Strength also, and that’s what we should be discussing.

    Now that i’ve said this….”OUTSIDE of the 70 weeks Proper”….Please, if you do not understand what “70 weeks PROPER” means, please ask for clarification.

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  102. Many commentaries, ancient and modern that speak of The Covenant that is Confirmed BY Christ in Daniel 9:27 will more often than not refer to the Old Mosaic Covenant. the Christ Confirms, and that’s theologically incorrect.
    That’s one of the reasons for much confusion by so many i think. it’s not the Old Covenant the Christ Confirms, it’s the Abrahamic Covenant…….seems that so many have difficulty understanding the difference between the two for some reason.
    Christ DID Confirm the Purpose/Meaning of the Old Covenant by His Sacrifice….but His PRIMARY PURPOSE and Sacrifice was to FULFILL the Old Covenant, Not to Just Confirm it.
    The Purpose of CONFIRMING the Abrahamic Covenant is to Confirm that God’s PROMISE, Made by and Oath, whereby He Swore By HIMSELF to Abraham WILL BE FULFILLED……………..FOREVER…………FOREVER FUFULFILLING.
    And although it Will Be FOREVER FULFILLING, Because it is EVERLASTING…….it Requires That 70th week CONFIRMATION………..That Dividing/Cutting of the Covenant that is Clearly Evident, first by the Abrahams Dividing of the First Red Heifer, and in many other ways we can further discuss.

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  103. Just a speculation but some have wondered out loud what we’ll do when the great delusion and the great falling away comes upon the earth.

    I think our God who loved us enough to die on a cross, loves us enough to provide for our support and encouragement as we enter into the time of greatest trial – the great tribulation that we know immediately precedes his second coming. I don’t have a calendar worked out like some, but I can see God loving and providential nature toward his own throughout the scriptures. Some of us will die for the sake of his name and he will be glorified. Some of us will be here through to the last moments before he snatches us from the jaws of the enemy’s domination, without restraint of this earth.

    I think in those days God’s two final great prophets will encourage us with the words from Gods own mouth as they pronounce his judgement on an evil world. The redemption of Israel and the emergence of 144000 faithful Jewish young men to commit their lives to preaching the Gospel of our Lord will encourage us. I know his word is enough, and his grace is sufficient but I do believe he will give us so much more to endure what is coming.

    Because our King loves us, he will provide for us, and he will rescue us when he comes.

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  104. “I know his word is enough, and his grace is sufficient but I do believe he will give us so much more to endure what is coming”

    That’s what i’m expecting too……….His Name is Faithful and True…that’s my favorite part of this text…
    Rev 19
    11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called…………. Faithful and True,………….. and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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  105. i believe what you have stated Sheep as i fully trust my heavenly father – always have, always will – the holy spirit lives inside all of us who are under His blood., even if our present understanding is flawed on this or that. nice comment./// we carry our faith thru day to day living – and later in the darkest of times our faith will carry us. my grandma said, first you make your habits then your habits make you,well i have a habit of trusting my Father God and i know all of us here do. and i ain’t gonna ever change that way of living..praise God. /// Rick i slowly made way thru a good bit of your fp material. i see James got involved in a confirming way! pretty neat! ole benny is giving you his best…i’ll go back for more. and thanks colleen, i am interested in your comment and the video in a big way. i’ll watch it now on my way to sleep…good nite mary ellen and john boy and jim bob and grandpa – sweet dreams……..i suppose berry blue and his family are filled w/ joy!!! New Life, praise you Lord! blessings…….ps colleen you could be a movie star*,..if i produced the jesus movie you would be the bride of christ, and you would be perfect for the part in my estimation! i appreciate you, like craziee!, sincerely.

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  106. just some of the pressure being put on israel. with the eu now at the forefront-the demands are getting to where everything is at stake. their ability to defend themselves-and their land is all they have to barter. we know this is all to promote “peace and safety” (at the very expense of israel). it has been becoming and now fully is their new normal–israel alone to make all the concessions. and america would have it so…….(where have i read this before?)…so many lies and so little time–i do not know the timeline for certain i am only certain it is soon rather than later that the Lord’s Time is coming up! there are still many things to come together but i think that many things in the many realms can happen in the world virtually overnight and the devil takes no holiday! let’s make sure you and i have our lamps filled with oil 😉 ) http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4458108,00.html

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  107. ” let’s make sure you and i have our lamps filled with oil 😉 ”
    Amen.

    And Amen
    Jer 10
    “14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.”
    15 They are vanity, and the work of errors:……. in the time of their visitation………. they shall perish.

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  108. james 1:2 count it all joy!…………………..for God is with us………………….in the” midst”……………………………….of our trials!,.. like He was w/ daniel in the lions den, and like He was with shadrach and them in the fiery furnace – He was there in the midst of their trial, amen. Count on it. That fiery furnace makes me think of the smoking furnace you mentioned on your thread at fp tribber.

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  109. 1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

    2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

    3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

    4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

    5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

    6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

    Post number 150 🙂

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  110. http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/7-volcanoes-erupting-in-6-countries-hours-apart-raise-speculation-of-doomsday/

    Anyone else notice that the volcanic activity has been crazy everywhere lately? I don’t have a good objective way to measure it – but it’s got my attention. Turning to Matthew 24 – we are told to expect famines and earthquakes in various places. I don’t know that we’ve hit an unusual amount of famines lately – though with all the crazy things world governments are doing with global warming nonsense, GMO’s, an overreliance on chemical additives in agriculture – it seems we are setting ourselves up for famines like the world has never seen. On the earthquake front – we had a huge rise in large earthquakes leading to the peak in 2011 where there were nearly 200 6+ quakes in one year – but the last two years we haven’t had quite that many (less than 130 so far this year). At the same time I’m reading more and more about geologists calling some of the ones we’ve been getting (or been getting in unusual places like the south Atlantic) different qualitatively than what they’ve seen in the past and they don’t know what to make of them.
    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/11/26/new-zealand-earthquakes-weakened-earths-crust-new-breed-of-earthquakes/
    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/11/25/7-0-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-south-atlantic-strongest-to-ever-hit-region/

    I was thinking of making this its own post – but I don’t really have time at the moment to dig to much deeper, other than to report some of natural phenomena being observed above.

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  111. have seen these things in the news justasheep but because of where i live i notice more that scientists are recording some real significant activity with the yellowstone basin. much increase in what the geysers, etc are doing this year. hurricane season in the u.s. has been quite quiet in contrast. worthy of it’s own space as a topic for sure. thanks for taking time to at least note it and link it.

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  112. I just wanted to clarify my thoughts as to jeremiah 10, it seems to me that there is alot of wicked and false doctrines and ideologies floating around out there that the church has embraced and sold to their pew warmers, everything from aliens and Jesus will come back in a ufo,excetera. It is vital that we be aware and vigilant of these things and expose them for what they are……lies. Anything that is outside of GOD’S word that is sold as being HIS word, needs to be exposed because it is blasphemous and goes contrary to the LORD and
    HIS soveriegn authority in all things! Be blessed everyone!

    REVELATION 22:18-19!

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  113. Amen Watchman2 amen!!

    We’re been set up for the greatest delusion mankind has even known and sadly many are are so deceived already they can’t even decipher what is truth anymore. I suppose there is none so deceived as ” self” 😦

    I was going to post a few video clips of how this ” alien paranoia ” {and it’s predictive programming } is conditioning and FUELLING the lie, but thought it’s best not too!

    Loved Pastor Brian’s update- Iran Deal Bad For Israel Part 2

    Pastor said “The Gog/Magog War may usher in the 70th week, or may usher in the rise of the Antichrist”….

    Well , I used to think that way 🙂 ….but now await the “sudden destruction” accompanied by Satan’s casting out as the start of the last 42 months …but then again who do I think i am anyways ways rightttt…lol

    Whew there is something just wrong in the Spirit.With USA and Iran being all …wait let me stop, lest I sin in my anger. I fear for the US of A…I really do !

    Praying for Israel. She has the right to defend herself!!!

    Getting off the soap box now.

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  114. the restoration of all things will ultimately rise to the top, for it is written! ///\\\ Be of good cheer* and like a friend of mine says, ” cheers “! and as the song says, ” Hes got the whole world in His hands. ” May we entertain pure and lovely thoughts with the peace that surpasses all understanding, knowing He is in control [ the He in THIS verse is referring to Our Father God ], amen – as we pass through this world on into His Kingdom which is NoT oF this world. We pray for your guidance Lord as we travel on the crossroad, strengthen us daily, create in us a clean heart and a right spirit and conform us to your image Lord God as you shape the desires of our hearts by the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of the blood of Jesus and the power of Him risin’ and ALIVE! Thank you for your word of Truth,…draw us unto you in spirit and in truth, amen, amen.

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  115. …risen!, that is. Be blessed people of the Lord. Happy Thanksgiving and love to all – goon nite coll, love you in Christ Jesus, LiKe CrAzIe!!!

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  116. my God colleen, you were soo esp* nice to me n sam, you touched me deep, in a matter of the heart. I am grateful, i give thanks. Sam i am,….he’s back [ in the mags’ter ] Thank you Lord God, Thank you Jesus Thank you Holy Spirit, and Thank you to my Mom so much. Sam is w/ my mom in heaven and sams mom is right here with me!,[we are 4, each other] supervising these blasted cats who tend to get, OuT Of CoNtRoL! come quickly Lord Jesus!!!!!, on the double – these cats are trying to take over the house. hope this partly explains my sanity issues and my tendencies to use new age language and drift…..out there into dangerous waters……….just kiddin’ gang, i’m anchored to the Rock of my salvation, Jesus Christ – Saviour. i will now bring this dissertation to an end,….peace of God be with you all. good nite John boy!

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  117. **********This is a re-post of my earlier comment************

    Many commentaries, ancient and modern that speak of The Covenant that is Confirmed BY Christ in Daniel 9:27 will more often than not refer to the Old Mosaic Covenant. the Christ Confirms, and that’s theologically incorrect.
    That’s one of the reasons for much confusion by so many i think. it’s not the Old Covenant the Christ Confirms, it’s the Abrahamic Covenant…….seems that so many have difficulty understanding the difference between the two for some reason.
    Christ DID Confirm the Purpose/Meaning and Requirements of the Old Covenant by His Sacrifice….but His PRIMARY PURPOSE and Sacrifice was to FULFILL the Old Covenant, Not to Just Confirm it.
    The Purpose of CONFIRMING the Abrahamic Covenant is to Confirm that God’s PROMISE, Made by and Oath, whereby He Swore By HIMSELF to Abraham WILL BE FULFILLED……………..FOREVER…………FOREVER FUFULFILLING.
    And although it Will Be FOREVER FULFILLING, Because it is EVERLASTING…….it Requires That 70th week CONFIRMATION………..That Dividing/Cutting of the Covenant that is Clearly Evident, first by the Abrahams Dividing of the First Red Heifer, and in many other ways we can further discuss.

    The links i provided regarding this is time consuming, but where did everybody go? Is there still interest in Understanding the Theological Importance of Daniel 9:27 and how that should Influence our grasp of Eschatology?

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  118. As the Lord is my witness I woke up with the intention of ressurecting this thread 🙂

    Yes the links you provided are time consuming and as the Lord is my witness I really can’t bare to read there at all anymore.

    Gal 5:15
    But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    Phl 2:3
    Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

    Speaking for myself here, I need the Lord to teach me all the details { of the 70th week } and am in awe how He has done this over the years. He has matured me , proven His Word and opened my eyes to some pretty serious deceptions we’ve embraced as ” truth” by men who lie in wait to d e c e i v e. The Lord forewarned us it would be this way.

    My heart is devestated as I witness those that I’ve once fellowshipped with turn cold, malicuios and bitter towards anyone that even dares try to express the grave spiritual danger we are in or tries to show the dangers of waiting for a 7 yr “PEACE” covenant, a quick rapture before all *** breaks loose and their { unfounded } anticipation for a third temple. There seems to be a growing cancer in the pre trib internet ” fellowships ” as one sits in ” authority ” over the sheep and God forbid anyone that dares to share a concern. How sad is that! It’s becoming pretty clear that we are the ” enemy “.

    I love how Paul say’s it 🙂

    But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    ……………>>>>And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

    Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already;………………>>>>> and overthrow the faith of some.

    Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having ….>this seal,…. The Lord……..>> knoweth them that are….>>>> his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ …….>>>>depart from iniquity.

    I pray that others will share their thoughts and by so doing are able to search the scriptures for ourselves.

    Shorttibber you said ” And although it Will Be FOREVER FULFILLING, Because it is EVERLASTING…….it Requires That 70th week CONFIRMATION………..That Dividing/Cutting of the Covenant that is Clearly Evident, first by the Abrahams Dividing of the First Red Heifer, and in many other ways we can further discuss.”

    So Christ “fulfilled ” the Abrahamic Covenant { by His blood- and the CONFIRMATION } so what now? do we witness Satan’s expelling from the heavenliness as the next ” event in the prophetic time line? or?

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  119. Wanted to edit my {caffeine induced } rambling’s ….but this is how the Lord shows me the areas where I need ” work ” on. I love it! “One cup of tea a day and NO more coffee”… I get it!!

    Carry on 🙂

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  120. “So Christ “fulfilled ” the Abrahamic Covenant { by His blood- and the CONFIRMATION } so what now? do we witness Satan’s expelling from the heavenliness as the next ” event in the prophetic time line? or?”

    No, Christ “Fullfilled” the Mosaic Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant Is IN the Process/ In the MIDST of BEING Confirmed, CONFIRMED……
    Christ Confirmed The First Portion of the Abrahamic Covenant During His 3.5 year ministry.
    The Final 3.5, when the Loser is cast out to be Confined to Earth Only is when the Second Portion of the CONFIRMATION of the Abrahamic Covenant will Commence.

    The 70th week, CONFIRMATION of the Abrahamic Covenant does not Fulfill It…..IT ONLY CONFIRMS IT’S Truth and Validity.

    The Fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant is Eternal, Eternally Fulfilling, An Everlasting Covenant……Forever in the Glorious Process of Never Ending Fulfillment.

    That is the difference that needs to be Understood…..there is a Very Distinct Difference between Confirmation, and Fulfillment.

    We are Now In the “Midst” of a VERY CLEAR and DISTINCT…………………….PORTION…………..of the FULFILLMENT…….of the “Promise/Covenant” to Abraham.

    We are in the “TIMES of the Gentiles”, the “MIDST” of the Gathering in of Abrahams Seed, by the millions………………..IN the “MIDST”…………AS the SMOKING POT and the BURNING LAMP (Light of the Gentiles)………….Between the Two Parts.

    “do we witness Satan’s expelling from the heavenliness as the next ” event in the prophetic ”

    Yes.

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  121. colleen, your a lot of fun!,..and i appreciate that,…the fact is, you rock! /// i do have to say that evil is here in such a overt way—covertly overt, or even overtly covert—as if the rebel has already been expelled from the heavenlys.,…………and the noose is tightening ALL AROUND US! StAyEd PrAyEd uP! with Father, Son and Holy Spirit TRUTH., and remember that He will be present, by our side in our time[s] of trial, amen…………………………….carry on*, you are cool as heck! you should move to vermont, we could argue, fight, laugh, rejoice, have frapps, slober, [ well you can slober, i’ll watch ] and Carry On in the Lord! ///// i tell ya between Berit Kjos site – and Servando Gonzales site, i conclude evil is becoming ripe-Overwhelmingly, but Gods Justice WILL prevail, thank you Father for your word.

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  122. Okay let me see if I understand what you’re saying:)

    Christ c o n f i r m e d { NOT FULFILLED } the first portion of the Abrahamic Covenant in his 42 month earthly ministry?

    Also from what I understand you’re saying{ please correct me } is that the last 42 months { when Satan is cast out } is when Christ will RULE through His saints and the Abrahamic covenant will be then ” fulfilled ” ? or?

    If so, how does that look like ? I mean what does that entail ?

    Tony you make me laugh,,,I swear you do this just to get a reaction out of me so I’ll bite. I’m the world’s most UN-“coolest” you’ve ever met{ maybe in my unsaved worldly days yeah } but nope that old Coll is dead and buried a long time ago,,,,hey I don’t even recognize her anymore , heck none of my family do either, and most of my friends want to know who stole Coll 🙂
    I’m going to print me a T -shirt tomorrow – “SERIOUSLY UN-COOL COLL”
    Yeah that’s more like it 🙂

    Laugh ,,,,,,that was funny!!!

    On a more serious note, yes Tony a dear sister in Christ and I have been asking the same question about the diabolical turn our world has taken….I do believe though that the Lord would not leave us guessing with a ” um , is he , or is he not” here and am 100% sure we will know when he is cast out. We are in the “preparation” stage, or so it seems.

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  123. thanks coll, your fun to me thru n thru. interesting what you said about the old coll disappearing. well i like the new coll, lots! i’m glad you weren’t ruff on me….your pretty nice to me.

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  124. Well let me clarify this Tony { before anybody accuses me of a ” works based salvation” 🙂

    It is Christ that INDWELLS us that causes us to become ” a new man “.{ there is NOTHING good in my flesh and no it can’t be reformed- it has to die } When we are born of the Spirit, the { indwelling } Godhead leads, guides and even rebukes us by the Holy Spirit’s prompting and His Word.

    We are saved by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS,{ not our own good works } as Christ IMPUTES HIS righteousness to us.How cool is that!!

    Father, Son and Holy Spirit in this ye temple ? How holy is that? Just that alone should have us down on our faces!

    “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

    I love that !

    “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” —2nd Corinthians 5:17

    Speaking of “NEW” I can’t wait for my white stone 🙂

    Rev 2:17
    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

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  125. “Christ c o n f i r m e d { NOT FULFILLED } the first portion of the Abrahamic Covenant in his 42 month earthly ministry?

    Yes…..But there Was Also a Partial “Fulfillment” of it also……….But an Absolute and Complete “Fulfillment” of the Mosaic Covenant.
    So you see….therein is the Primary Difference between the Abrahamic and Mosaic(Old) Covenant.

    “Also from what I understand you’re saying{ please correct me } is that the last 42 months { when Satan is cast out } is when Christ will RULE through His saints and the Abrahamic covenant will be then ” fulfilled ” ? or?. ”

    You’re close…….”Fulfilled” Partially……..But “Confirmed” Completely………Remember the Abrahamic Covenant is Everlasting/Eternal….it will Be Forever, Always Fulfilling.
    The Surety and Confidence we and every living thing will have in God’s Promise to Abraham will be “CONFIRMED” in the final 3.5.
    And Nothing….ABSOLUTELT NOTHING will Ever, EVER Change God’s Promises and Words.

    If so, how does that look like ? I mean what does that entail ?

    Well, this i’ve mentioned before, but i’ll try to find where i can simply repost it………This what i THINK will occur….just don’t know.

    “Three things i Think.
    1. IF…..not sure……but IF, the two witnesses are In Fact the 144,000 and the Church, there will be an Unmistakable Power in the Prophetic Words Spoken and Prophecy Clearly understood and Proclaimed by each Group of Saints.

    2. Not sure When, During the Final 3.5, but i am Convinced that at some point there will be an Incredible and Irresistible Power and Ability Given/Graced by the Holy Spirit IN the Saints to Resist Sin………Literally Walk Without Sin And In Perfection of Unity and Love of the Truth.

    3. It May Be that we could Literally Shine with the Glory/Shekinah (as Moses did) of God…….and the only way to Stop that Shekinah Glory in any Saint is by Killing the Physical Body.

    Point one and two are most likely IMO….point three is just a possibility maybe.

    Remember now….this is not about US Becoming in Any WAY godlike, But ONLY the POWER of the Living God in HUMBLE, BROKEN, and JIONED With and To God, Vessels of Earth.

    That’s what will be so Overwhelmingly Obvious, Such Power, Unity, and True Love in the Saints…….when for So Long on this earth we, as a Church, have been such Pitiful Examples and Ambassadors of God historically…………But THAT will change IMO…….in the Final 3.5 Confirmation.

    It Will CONFIRM to ALL Humanity, and Angels (Good and Evil)……WHO…..Are on the RIGHT Side…….And…..WHO….Are on the Wrong Side of God and Truth.

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  126. And………………… ALL WILL SEE…………….HOW GREAT

    HOW Unimaginably……………………………GREAT!!!!!!!!!!………………………..

    HOW……………………………GREEEEEEAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    SHOUT it……….SHOUT!!!!!!!!!! IT!!!!!!!

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  127. I think this is the first time you’ve opened up the way for a more deeper discussion { and a understanding of what you have been trying to convey } and pray that in so doing other’s will now freely join in.

    Thank-you guys for your patience and if I have to “fear sounding stupid ” in my asking questions or if that ever restrains me then I’ve got a serious problem with pride 🙂

    I’m off to my prayer closet.

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  128. “But ONLY the POWER of the Living God in HUMBLE, BROKEN, and JOINED With and To God, Vessels of Earth.”

    Amen shorty!

    I was praying last night and the anointing of the Holy Spirit visited here. I love Him. He’s so full of mercy and compassion its not even funny. God is Good!

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  129. How does one become “humble, broken , joined with God being a vessel ” WORHTY to be used of Him?

    BROKENNESS!

    ………..>>>> which produces CHRIST-LIKE character = ATTAINED in the FIREY furnace of AFFLICTION. How many are willing to allow God to SHAPE, MOULD and CONFORM them into a VESSEL HE chooses , for HE ALONE get’s the glory.

    In His house He has vessels of dishonour and vessels of wrath FITTED to destruction.

    WHY ?

    And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    Romans 9:23

    I Peter 1:7 ‘That the trial of your FAITH, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth’. The gold of God is a Christ-like character produced in the fiery furnace of affliction. That is the right kind of gold.

    I have this motto in life- I NEVER trust a non-limping believer, note I didn’t say Christian because everybody calls themselves ” Christian ” around my neck of the woods.
    If one hasn’t been touched by the HAND of the Lord or better still had a wrestling match with Him then I RUN as fast as I can 🙂

    The solution.

    Revelation 3:18-19 ‘I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent’.

    The consequence.

    Matthew 25:1-13 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

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  130. Shelly, just curious, are you suggesting that because of your prayer, or because you think you hold some special place, that is the reason the annointing came?,because if you are, you need to consider two things. 1. GOD is no RESPECTOR of PERSONS and 2. We ALL are INDWELLED with the HOLY SPIRIT. No exceptions, we are all vessels that the LORD uses as he chooses, no one is above another. Be blessed!

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  131. As the Lord is my witness, a sister in Christ just txtd me the above verse { Matt 25: 12 }

    I got the goossiess all over ! Now that is what I call AFFIRMATION!! I love it!

    “But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.”

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  132. Just seems that Shelly was making a positive comment…and that’s all I read in it anyway.

    Watchman2,
    The response to Shelly is just a mystery to me. It just must have been misunderstood in some way guess……just doesn’t make any sense to me.

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  133. same goes for me loop and shorttribber. watchman2,if you are curious ok…but if just provocative-not so much…

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  134. watchman 2, the above post hit me in such n such a way- that i think i needed to hear it – as maybe i sometimes think i have favour w/ God because i have myself thinking and feeling that i have real strong childlike faith and because of it Gods mercy ect…appears in my life as things unfold. /// i don’t see that at all, in what Shelly stated above. Are you sure that you were’nt reffering to me, ” super-child “!!!

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  135. i’m thinking about changing my tony tarr name to either, “superchild’, or maybe, “supertarr”!, you know…as the new name that i post comments with. i wonder if we kin have a vote:… all in favor of Supertarr!!

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  136. “How does one become “humble, broken , joined with God being a vessel ” WORHTY to be used of Him? ”

    There is only one small correction to the above sentence that could be more accurate maybe……..the word “Worthy” could be appropriately discarded for “Able”.

    just reflecting on Paul’s evaluation of himself…and David..Oh God, what is man, that thou art mindful of him.

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  137. ” There is only one small correction to the above sentence that could be more accurate maybe……..the word “Worthy” could be appropriately discarded for “Able”.

    Suppose language and culture does make a difference when we talk…I told ya I talk funny LOL 🙂

    Eph 4:1

    I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk …….>>>>>>>worthy………..>>>>>>>> of the ……>>>>vocation wherewith ye are called,

    With all…….>>>>> lowliness and….>>>>>> meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

    Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

    In me there is “NO” good thing…I love it…i am NOT able to do anything ….it if were not for the Lord God ….wait that’s fer another discussion 🙂

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  138. “Eph 4:1

    I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk …….>>>>>>>worthy………..>>>>>>>> of the ……>>>>vocation wherewith ye are called,

    With all…….>>>>> lowliness and….>>>>>> meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

    Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.”

    Yes, and there are other examples where “Worthy” is used.
    You’re right…….But what exactly is an Unprofitable Servant Worth? We are Children of God, and of Great Worth, and this Treasure we have in Earthen Vessels………so it is that the only
    “Worth” we Have is Christ IN us.

    So it is too that when we do “Walk Worthy” we are doing nothing More and nothing Less than “Walking in the Spirit”……………….the Spirit of Christ IN us.

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  139. I love that God’s WORD is above mans .. JUST LOVE IT !

    2Th 1:5
    Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God,………>>>>> that ye may be counted….>>>>>>>worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    2Th 1:11
    Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our …..>>>God would …….>>>count you…>>>> …worthy…. of this….>>>>>> calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

    Rev 3:4
    Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: ….>>>>>>>>for they are worthy.

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  140. Getting back on track .

    Mr Shorttribber said –

    “Three things i Think.
    1. IF…..not sure……but IF, the two witnesses are In Fact the 144,000 and the Church, there will be an Unmistakable Power in the Prophetic Words Spoken and Prophecy Clearly understood and Proclaimed by each Group of Saints.

    2. Not sure When, During the Final 3.5, but i am Convinced that at some point there will be an Incredible and Irresistible Power and Ability Given/Graced by the Holy Spirit IN the Saints to Resist Sin………Literally Walk Without Sin And In Perfection of Unity and Love of the Truth.

    3. It May Be that we could Literally Shine with the Glory/Shekinah (as Moses did) of God…….and the only way to Stop that Shekinah Glory in any Saint is by Killing the Physical Body.

    Point one and two are most likely IMO….point three is just a possibility maybe.”

    Shall we exhaust # 1 first ?

    First question.

    In your understanding are the 144000 { Native born } Jewish men? Or is this ” spiritual Israel ” ?

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  141. “In your understanding are the 144000 { Native born } Jewish men? Or is this ” spiritual Israel ” ?”
    That’s a difficult thing to know exactly….just don’t think we have enough clear info to be sure.
    Could be primarily Messianic Jews with a blend of Gentile Christians with some sort of Distinct Calling from God to be grouped together with them for whatever prophetic plan He has specifically for that group of believers.

    If you look at the list of the twelve tribes in Revelation you’ll see it Is Different than the list given in the Old Testament…..it is a list that is minus Dan and Ephraim, and instead has Joseph and Levi…both Levi and Joseph lends to the idea that there could be gentiles among them.

    That’s the best answer I can give in the absence of more clear scriptures to accurately define them.

    What are your ideas about them?

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  142. blood moons debunked by chris white on youtube,…take a look-see! clever and very interesting………hummmmmmm! theres something very fishy going on here???but i ain’t scared! fear not gang,…visit supertarr.com for peace of mind——-be not anxious,…love with all yer might; in Christ, alone. blessings,…… and greetings earthlings!! hi coll, just little ole’ me, alien provocatuer’……………………………………just kiddin’ round some

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  143. Hello? Hisown? Any ideas you have about the 144,000? Guess we’ll all see how the Moon Stuff turns out in time Tony……… i think the Lord will be Very Clear about what He does in the Heavens for us to take Notice of though.

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  144. this comment is for watchman2……is this the way you understand the Scriptures too? there is often real misunderstanding about the ministry of the Holy Spirit. and i know this myself because i had to leave a certain denomination before i could grasp this thought and now i know personally what was lacking in my understanding. maybe this is you-or—maybe not—–whatever–because it is to God we answer-certainly not to me so this is only a rhetorical question i pose–God bless this to you in the spirit in which it is shared 🙂 >>>>>>>>>>>>All believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe [Eph. 1:13-14]; but not all believers are spirit filled, since that depends on yieldedness to God’s will. Being filled with the Holy spirit describes an experience that can be repeated [Acts 2:4; Eph. 5:18] and it is connected with love, joy, power and Christian character. (to paraphrase–let the Holy Spirit keep refilling you (be ye being filled) with His Sanctifying Power–(we leak as oswald chambers my utmost for His highest describes it 😉 it is about being over and over re-submitting ourselves to the Lord’s Will in obedience-not a salvation issue). and as the best tag ever–Jesus loves you!

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  145. Okay this thread started out really interesting and has just wandered off some place, hate when that happens on an interesting topic.

    I can see a certain amount of deductible sense (dangerous sense– I guess, as human reasoning is so often flawed) to the idea that Jesus did fulfill the first 3 1/2 years of a 7 year week that might be termed a covenant that he would continue to fill out on his return, it being his covenant. It is not clear to me why we would want to label this last week as a covenant, though again I can grant it might be viewed that way as it ultimately restores us to a legal and fulfilling relationship with our Creator God.

    I am not going with the two witnesses not being two individuals,…I see no reasonable way to see thousands of people being pictured in Rev.11 that seems quite clearly to be describing two individuals. I am a firm believer that Scripture is understandable, and written to be that way,– though the closer we get to these issues clearly the sharper our perception is of what is being said, as knowledge increases. I don’t go along with the “he said this, but he meant that” way of going at Scripture. I have a life time of interacting with Scripture under my belt and I simply find it works the way it says it does.

    I am struggling some knowing what Christ is doing these 3 1/2 years…though you postulate he is leading the Gog/Magog war (plausible), and we think there is some time to train the 144,000 in there, but I am not finding that a full schedule for him. Moreover frankly I don’t like this scenario very much, because when he shows up I am sure I will want to pack my bags and start toward Jerusalem….but in reality we will probably need to hold our places and continue to serve him. But generally I think Scripture indicates when Jesus is here the Spirit is with the Father. And I do not believe he will leave us without the Spirit’s help in these difficult times (yes I think it is Micheal that rises, not the Holy Spirit). Anyways I am interested to know what you would preceive he is doing in these years prior to his executing the days of wrath? Appreciate any on topic responses. Nkosazana

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  146. i agree about the two witnesses being two individuals (won’t cover that here right now but think they will be moses and elijah like at Jesus’ transfiguration). and i also believe that michael is the restrainer and when God gives the go-ahead then the devil will come and fill the man of sin (son of perdition). i think he will be the one who is directing how temple mount will be divided (carved up is more like it) to keep a “so-called” peace and the 2 witnesses will out him and his agenda. and the 144,000 are the back-up witness though i am not sure when they come on the scene and for how long. and of course i am not altogether sure about this position about exactly who and when but the closer it gets the more we will see this unfold and totally make sense.

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  147. ” I guess, as human reasoning is so often flawed) to the idea that Jesus did fulfill the first 3 1/2 years of a 7 year week that might be termed a covenant that he would continue to fill out on his return, it being his covenant. It is not clear to me why we would want to label this last week as a covenant,”

    It’s not a Covenant He will “fill out”/”Fulfill”, it is a Confirmation of the Covenant……Not the Fulfillment of it……below helps explain the Difference….i’ll repost it…you may have not read this yet Nkosazana.

    “Christ Confirmed The First Portion of the Abrahamic Covenant During His 3.5 year ministry.
    The Final 3.5, when the Loser is cast out to be Confined to Earth Only is when the Second Portion of the CONFIRMATION of the Abrahamic Covenant will Commence.

    The 70th week, CONFIRMATION of the Abrahamic Covenant does not Fulfill It…..IT ONLY CONFIRMS IT’S Truth and Validity.

    The Fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant is Eternal, Eternally Fulfilling, An Everlasting Covenant……Forever in the Glorious Process of Never Ending Fulfillment.

    That is the difference that needs to be Understood…..there is a Very Distinct Difference between Confirmation, and Fulfillment.”

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  148. Rev 1:1 He sent it and signified* it through His angel to His slave John.

    Signify means to imply.

    Imply – to suggest something without saying it directly, or to express or indicate indirectly.

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  149. Nkosazana I loved what you said here.

    “I can see a certain amount of deductible sense (dangerous sense– I guess, as human reasoning is so often flawed) ”

    Had dinner with a pastor friend and his family last night and he was sharing how dangerous “personal opinions” are and how that breeds pride and false teaching. We need to witness the FRUIT of the Holy Spirit and test all things against God’s Word. He is currently teaching on ” death to religion ” 🙂

    I loved how he shared that true agape love can never be faked and how we can see right through it! True, most of the ” gift’s of the spirit ” can be faked, but true agape ” love” somehow can’t be.What a powerful truth!

    How can we say we LOVE God and yet…..

    1Jo 4:20

    If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

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  150. quote:)
    “How can we say we LOVE God and yet…..

    1Jo 4:20

    If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?”

    Amen to that!

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  151. Alright shorttribber’s clarification about the 70th week as a confirmation holds water, though sort of a mute point, because it is a fulfillment as well as a confirmation it seems to me…the covenant not truly operational for us until the sacrifice at the cross was accomplished. Okay, I can think I can maneuver these waters.

    But now I am again wondering how he is taking 3 1/2 years …or say three if you want to give 6 months to wrath (and I am not thinking it will take that long to tear up this earth with fire…the flood sure didn’t take that long), and not have a lot of time on his hands not clearly designated to anything. Sounds like the Gog/Magog war is not drawn out for very long. On the emmaeus road he brought the two gentlemen up to speed in just a couple of hours, so a couple of months with the 144,000 seems like it ought to get the job done. I am just not “feeling” this, that he would be here this far ahead of the millennial reign. I mean the sooner the better….I am all the John saying…even so Lord Jesus come. But considering this is a whole new idea to me that he would be here this long…I don’t think Scripture indicates anyplace…that kind of time frame. “Splain please”. Nkosazana

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  152. “Alright shorttribber’s clarification about the 70th week as a confirmation holds water, though sort of a mute point, because it is a fulfillment as well as a confirmation it seems to me”

    It’s not a mute point because of the Very Important Distinction between the fulfillment and the Confirmation…..Absolutely Not a Mute point I’m Stressing.

    “But now I am again wondering how he is taking 3 1/2 years …or say three if you want to give 6 months to wrath ”

    I believe the Wrath of God will be Poured out Sometime During the Final 75 days recorded at the end of Daniel 12.

    ” I am just not “feeling” this, that he would be here this far ahead of the millennial reign. ”

    The idea of Christ being here On Earth Literally at the Beginning of the final 3.5 is not what i’m believing or in agreement with, this thread is just suggesting the idea and so on.
    No, my position is that Christ’s Parousia “Coming” is Present In and By HIS SPIRIT……IN….the Saints Only at the Beginning of the final 3.5…..Christ’s Physical Appearing will occur AFTER the 1260 days is Entirely Completed.

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  153. I appreciate the time it is taking you to reply Shorttribber. Okay you are saying you don’t expect Christ to be “literally in body” here till closer to the end of the 1260 days,…but you seem to be implying he would be manifested in the saints. This sounds like dominism to me. Are you saying that you believe the saints will be “perfected” and so to speak on top of things by then to such a degree that it could be taken as the equivalent of Christ being present physically. I can not really buy into the whole dominionist thought line that when “we” get the world ready, Messiah will return. I am thinking on the contrary for sure, that things are going to be falling apart and He is going to come to the rescue and then and only then are things going to be set straight. Though yes I am hoping that these last years on the battlefield will bring believers closer to him…but the battle. The battle is his. We REALLY, REALLY need his incomparable and matchless help to set things right. He and only he can ultimately Lucifer and his henchmen angels.

    So okay, if I am understanding you correctly this thought line is not so different except that you are saying that Daniel’s reference in Chapter 11 to an agreement with many, may not entail the antichrist making a treaty with Israel ( ie, the good neighbor policy), but be referencing Christ confirming with many…….(not clear what to put there) the last seven year week? Hmmm…… Have I got it right this time. If so, I am not sure I think I am willing to abandon the bad guy making this agreement, over the Lord. But it is still unfolding and I am glad to ruminate on all these thoughts. Thanks again. Nkosazana

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  154. ” This sounds like dominism to me. Are you saying that you believe the saints will be “perfected” and so to speak on top of things by then to such a degree that it could be taken as the equivalent of Christ being present physically.”

    No, it can be easily misunderstood as Dominionism. But it surely is not, and i’ll tell ya why, the nonsense called dominionism is based on so many faulty ideas it’s endless, but the Primary difference is that Politics and Religious ideas and some kind of Grand Persuasion over humanity is not at all what i’m suggesting.
    The Loser, will be in Power over the World Politically, Economically, and Religiously (False Religion that is) thru the Entire final 3.5 Years. but the Kingdom will already, BE COME, the Saints will have Absolutely NOTHING to do with Bringing it IN……God’s KINGDOM and POWER will be Manifested and PRESENT/AT HAND Starting in the First Day of the Final 3.5.
    Rev12
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the ……………………..kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ………………………….: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    That’s the Difference, It’s ALL God’s Doing…..Has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING We, the Saints……..Usher In.

    As far as the “perfected” part……..That Part is something i do expect……Based on this idea……

    Rev 12
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    It’s About the Unity, Power, Faith, and Overcoming Testimony of Christ in Us…..BY HIS SPIRIT….The Hope of Glory.

    “Remember now….this is not about US Becoming in Any WAY godlike, But ONLY the POWER of the Living God in HUMBLE, BROKEN, and JIONED With and To God, Vessels of Earth.

    That’s what will be so Overwhelmingly Obvious, Such Power, Unity, and True Love in the Saints…….when for So Long on this earth we, as a Church, have been such Pitiful Examples and Ambassadors of God historically…………But THAT will change IMO…….in the Final 3.5 Confirmation.

    It Will CONFIRM to ALL Humanity, and Angels (Good and Evil)……WHO…..Are on the RIGHT Side…….And…..WHO….Are on the Wrong Side of God and Truth.

    And thank you dear Saint of God Nkosazana, for your gracious and humble enquiries; your questions are presented in such a way as being very open and receptive.

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  155. “So okay, if I am understanding you correctly this thought line is not so different except that you are saying that Daniel’s reference in Chapter 9 to an agreement with many, may not entail the antichrist making a treaty with Israel ( ie, the good neighbor policy), but be referencing Christ confirming with many…….(not clear what to put there) the last seven year week? Hmmm…… Have I got it right this time.”

    Yes, you have that correct, it’s Christ in 9:27
    It’s Christ in verse 1,2,3,4 etc., etc. ……all the way thru the Entire Chapter of Daniel 9……Christ is the Primary Reason and Focus of the Entire Chapter. And while i have your attention, please review this Most Important Aspect of the Seventieth Week Prophecy……
    http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65378

    it can’t be any other way……Christ’s Sacrifice Occurred BY Necessity………..IN…….the Seventy Weeks Proper……NOT in an Indeterminate Timespace……………….BETWEEN….. the 69th and 70th week………………………….Think about it.

    Then you’ll Understand….that it Can Not be Otherwise.

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  156. Alright we are agreed…sort of…that dominionism is totally going done the wrong road. Christ will put things right not his band of new age prophets rectifying the ills of the world.

    And we agree that the sacrifice at the cross lays the foundation for kingdom rule. The battle is won at that point for sure. But I am not following that kingdom rule begins at the 3 1/2 year mark before the end. Victory would be established 33 and some years after his birth. But even while he was still alive he says:

    20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

    So I am not understanding why the Scriptures you quote in Rev 12 are to be tied to the abomination of desolation time frame. At some point Satan gets the heave ho from heaven and the locks get changed so he can no longer get access. But I see no compelling reason to believe we would call that the beginning of kingdom reign on earth, when Christ is not yet here physically. He can and does reign in our hearts, but he is not yet exercising his reign on earth….or things would look a mess of a lot different. And yes we overcome by the power of his blood. But it is what martyrs have always done. Each victory is his and his alone, all is done only by his grace. But this does not mean his earthly reign is commenced. It will commence when He himself returns and cleans house. When that is done,…He will be recognized, crowned, glorified, lifted up and ACKNOWLEDGED by every being God has ever created as the eternal Son of God and Ruler of this World. Man I can’t wait…..from our perspective it is SOOOOOOO overdue, though I know for God it is all happening as he planned. Again I thank you for your time Shorttribber. I would love to look forward to him being here sooner,…but really I think it will be somehow connected to the day of wrath. I don’t know where he will reside to execute these times of rebuke from God,…on earth,..on a horse standing on a cloud,…from the throne room. I love the thought of being mounted behind him in a troop of attending saints. I don’t know. All I know is the sooner the better. Even so Lord Jesus come.

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  157. Well stated comments Nkosazana, please though examine the following scriptures to see how they relate to each other.

    but before I give you a few texts for comparison…..please Observe the MEANING of the Very Important Text you’ve already provided…..

    “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

    In other Words….The Kingdom of God was PRESENT and AMONG them @ and During Christ’s Ministry…….@ His First Parousia/Coming.
    And they Were UNABLE to OBSERVE it.

    Now please examine the other texts that Are Related so Closely to the One above that you’ve first provided.

    Daniel 7
    18 But the saints of the most High……………… shall take the kingdom……………., and……………. possess the kingdom…………. for ever, even for ever and ever……………….

    Can “The” Kingdom be “Taken”……… If………… “The Kingdom” is Not Present for the TAKING?

    21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
    22 Until the………….. Ancient of days came,…………. and judgment was…….. given to…… the saints of the most High;………… and the time came………….. that the saints…………………….
    possessed the kingdom………………..

    A Kingdom must be PRESENT to be Battled FOR and IN…………BEFORE it can become a………….Possession.

    25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    THIS is GOD’S Battle…….BY His Spirit……IN the Saints…………For “THE” Kingdom That is “Very Present” DURING the Final 3.5, Yet…………………..Unobservable AT THAT TIME……………Eye’s of the Flesh will Not Observe it.

    26 But the judgment shall sit, and…………. they shall take away his dominion,………… to consume and to destroy it unto the end…………………………………………….

    Because……………..The “LOSER” will become a Trespasser in God’s Kingdom at that Time…………..And THAT”S WHY the Loser Will Know……his TIME is Short!

    27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,…………………… shall be given………………….. to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    Again, Something that is Not Present to be “GIVEN”, Can’t be “Given”, Possessed.

    Now, consider the above scripture and Compare the TIMING of them with the following…..

    Rev 12
    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,………………………. Now…………………….. is come salvation, and strength, and………………… the kingdom………………….. of our God, and……………………… the power of his Christ:………………….. for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath,…………….. because…………… he…………. knoweth…………… that he hath but a………….. short time.

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  158. On checking a number of translation on Bible Gateway I am only seeing KJV using take,..and most of the others using receive. I am not sure it is a kingdom we can take, except that we receive it as a gift from Christ.

    Still this is beside the point, the Kingdom is won by Christ’s death. Why would I believe it to commence in some way at the 3 1/2 year time frame? Why is “THIS is GOD’S Battle…….BY His Spirit……IN the Saints…” more so now, than at any other time in post Messianic history?

    “The saints will be handed over to him (the antichrist) for a time, times and half a time (3 1/2 yrs). (We will clearly appear to be losing this battle). THEN (eg. when Christ comes on the scene “court will sit”, ( the antichrist’s) “power will be taken away”, and “heaven handed over to the saints”. Under the rulership of our Messianic king,…now visible “on scene”.

    I am pretty sure Lucifer has as good or better handle on the time frame than even we do. He has had a VERY long time to study Scripture (an exercise that probably gives him heartburn, but that I sincerely doubt he avoids none the less). He knows as well as we do it IS the playbook of import, unrivaled by Nostradamus, the Theosophists, or the volumes of wickedness attached to the mystery religions. He knows the lay of the land for sure.
    Would that God’s saints had studied it as much as he has. We have been slow to come to this battle equipped as would be befitting the King’s soldiers,…and our numbers our few. But thanks to sites like this,…our eyes are opening. The swords not quite so dull as they were. Uniforms being unpacked from old chests and shaken out. The battle is coming and we all know it….and not far from the door. Lord bless you richly. Nkosazana

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  159. Andre’, how can you be a true believer and not yield to GOD’S will? When you are born again
    you are indwelled by CHRIST,so a constant refilling, as you put it, of the holy spirit,seems to
    suggest that CHRIST in you isn’t enough to strengthen in our walk with HIM, and that suggests that CHRIST isn’t enough, and CHRIST is more than enough. The holy spirit
    reveals itself in the fruits we bear as we walk with CHRIST,in our character,whatever ministry we are called to, whether it be prayer,preaching the gospel,or whatever way the
    LORD chooses to use us to shine through us. Be blessed!

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  160. watchman2 the ministry of the Holy Spirit is enough! we have all of Him when we are born-again-but the question is….does He have all of us-me/you individually when we come to Christ? roman chapter 6 and 7 is a good example of what i am referring to that is the sanctification process and it is about growth in the things of the Spirit. got to crawl before you can walk amen? the greek explains it–the ministry of the Holy Spirit is 3-fold. He is with–“para” coming alongside convicting and leading to repentance and faith in Jesus–He comes in–“en” indwelling at the moment we are saved-sealed for all time-He is most definitely enough! and 3rd-He comes upon-“epi” that is the filling/refilling part for our growing in Grace that apostle paul is teaching. there is a distinction because we are justified when we come to faith in Christ but then we must lay our lives down daily to be yielded to let Him have His sway and way over us to fill and empower us to walk worthy of the high calling-the upward call in and of Christ Jesus. read philippians ch 3:13-21 to see that process in action–we need to be filled/refilled for this! i think this is perhaps what you are not realizing. and neither did i when i was first saved. study the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the new testament greek to see if i am correct. you know you cannot take my word for this but you can take God at His 😉 God bless you!

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  161. ST Wrote, “”As far as the “perfected” part……..That Part is something i do expect ……Based on this idea……”
    My question: Are you stating that this perfection has not yet come to pass—that it is futuristic? My understanding is that all perfected parts were completed when Jesus rose from the dead to sit at the right hand of the Father. It is written, “He said, It is finished.” John 19:30

    ST Wrote, “Rev 12
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”
    My comment: When Jesus saved and converted me to being Born Again, He transformed me from the kingdom of darkness into His kingdom of light years ago, I received power from the Lord thru the promise of the Holy Spirit to witness to the lost. Power to hit the highways and byway, beaches, parks to proclaim what Jesus did for whosoever will answer His knock and follow through into salvation. How Jesus changed and continues to change my life became my “testimony” and I overcome when I am given opportunity to share the gospel with others. And through a life transformation, I am able to not love my life unto death. For me, this has already happened, it’s not futuristic my friend.

    ST wrote: It’s About the Unity, Power, Faith, and Overcoming Testimony of Christ in Us…..BY HIS SPIRIT….The Hope of Glory.
    My question: Please explain this because I see that all of the above has already come to pass and continues daily to do so, being available to whoever cares to know His will.

    ST wrote: “Remember now….this is not about US Becoming in Any WAY godlike, But ONLY the POWER of the Living God in HUMBLE, BROKEN, and JIONED With and To God, Vessels of Earth.
    My comment: Every day, this is how a true Born Again believer ought to be living in. It’s not for the future.

    ST wrote: “That’s what will be so Overwhelmingly Obvious, Such Power, Unity, and True Love in the Saints…….when for So Long on this earth we, as a Church, have been such Pitiful Examples and Ambassadors of God historically…………But THAT will change IMO…….in the Final 3.5 Confirmation.”
    My comment: “Will Be??” I just don’t understand. It is written, That thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matt 16:18 Jesus has always had His church, His remnant or “Ambassadors” as you stated. The only “pitiful examples” are most likely the deceived, the apostate church, the backslid, stiff-necked and uncircumcised heart! Through Jesus Christ’s life and death alone we are no longer pitiful. Is God mocked? Did not Jesus perform the ultimate sacrifice already, do we make Him a liar in that we are not given this victory over sin every day, to live in His truth and light today, to be over-comers right now?
    Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall IN NO WISE ENTER therein.” How does one speak to a little child the opinions written here on this post? Do we really think children would be able to understand all these opinions? [Symbolizing?]
    I don’t have the ability nor do I desire to offend you ST, and please understand that I may be totally off here, but my observation is that you only care to discuss with those who will agree with you, after that, it becomes an argument. I find that you entice by guesswork and mystery alone. Anyone who begins to question your authority on a subject matter, you are then quick to “correct” and if one continues to stand uncorrected in your sight, you set out to diminish ones understanding. Is it that you feel that your word is that of the prophetic?
    Moreover, I find that many of the IMO you pose as truths are spiritually dangerous whether it involves end times UFO/Alien hogwash or the blood of Christ falling into the ground crevice and onto the ark of the covenant as some form of significance to end times prophecy, is Scripturally unsound. What I can’t figure out is, how so many of the assumptions, opinions of the “prophetic word” is now so easily accepted here where not too long ago, Adamantine, who actually made huge contributions here, was dragged through the mud, demoralized, called names and publically cast out (of which he graciously endured I might add and not one apology was shown) for far less offenses than that of what is being witnessed now. We sure are in the last days. Anyway, yes it is absolutely true that the US is toast, but at least today, this day, we still have the freedom to express our thoughts. And clearly these are only my own and seeing I hardly post here, I certainly have nothing to lose. The gospel is simple and Jesus is Lord! Thank you

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  162. Nkosazana, thank-you so very much for the way in which you have conducted your posts. Not only do you bear witness with my spirit, but also in all you have posted.I love everything you have shared as the Holy Spirit bear’s witness in that as well 🙂 I will continue to pray for wisdom and discernment for you.

    Guys, we are living in some pretty serious and none of us are immune to ” being deceived”. All I know is that I have some pretty serious red flag’s in my spirit { I can’t ignore them any longer } and choose to step away for a time to seek the Lord in prayer and some alone time:)
    I will refrain from commenting on some pretty serious concerns I do have and will choose to obey His voice in that. Praise the Lord that His Spirit in us set’s off ” warning bells” when things are just not right!

    My promise from the Lord after He saved me from ” man’s teachings” 🙂

    1Jo 2:20
    But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

    1Jo 2:27
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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  163. but just because we do not have all the ducks in a row and i am sure have some things right and some things wrong in the prophecy realm does not make us deceived. i read no ones posts that claim to have it all understood. (we have had some really wrong ones show up from time to time but they get challenged so that is good right?) so……i think the word deceived should be reserved for those who truly are–those have the gospel wrong (and will have prophecy all wrong too). yeah we need prayer and guarded hearts but really are we just that worried about something here now that could lead people seriously away from Christ? i don’t see that kind of red flag waving here. just my 2cents…………

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  164. Praise God for the little word ” IF ” 🙂

    Mar 13:22
    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

    This is between me and the Lord sis Andre and when He has released me and given me a understanding , then I will know the ” why”.

    Thank-you for praying for me.
    Love and blessings.

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  165. ok hisown. i will pray for a clarity to come and the peace that affords. i have to guard my own heart and know that you are careful to guard yours. and i praise God that He does use you to help clean up error that does show up here. you are faithful with that gift of discernment-that i know and am thankful for. the gift of discernment sometimes really really has some heavy attached to it doesn’t it? bless you and know that i love you in the Love of Jesus.

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  166. “My question: Are you stating that this perfection has not yet come to pass—that it is futuristic? My understanding is that all perfected parts were completed when Jesus rose from the dead to sit at the right hand of the Father.”

    This scripture answers your question….

    Eph 4
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    This has Not Yet Occurred in the Body of Christ……..All things are net yet Completed BY Christ………..IN the Church.
    Christ’s Redemptive Work….His Provision for our Perfecting Was Accomplished/Finished…..Yet not ALL things FOR the Perfecting of the Saints are Finished.

    “ST wrote: “Remember now….this is not about US Becoming in Any WAY godlike, But ONLY the POWER of the Living God in HUMBLE, BROKEN, and JIONED With and To God, Vessels of Earth.
    My comment: Every day, this is how a true Born Again believer ought to be living in. It’s not for the future.”

    “Ought To” is correct………..It is FOR NOW, but we do not FULLY Do such NOW…..But In TIME, WE WILL.
    I could be wrong…….but we will see.

    ” The only “pitiful examples” are most likely the deceived, the apostate church, the backslid, stiff-necked and uncircumcised heart! Through Jesus Christ’s life and death alone we are no longer pitiful. Is God mocked?”

    We are ALL “deceived”, at least in part, primarily by the person between our own two shoulders….my self included……………None of us have absolute knowledge of Truth.
    Historically, “The Church” has had examples of True Christian Character and Love, but there have been FAR MORE examples to the contrary, and not from apostates……Just from Those who Vehemently Claimed to be Right and Vehemently and Mercilessly Persecuted those who Opposed them.

    ” “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall IN NO WISE ENTER therein.” How does one speak to a little child the opinions written here on this post? Do we really think children would be able to understand all these opinions? ”

    Prophecy is what we are discussing, and it is complicated. Receiving the Kingdom as a Child will be done by One Simple thing that GOD DOES………………Cause us to Love Him, and Each other.
    That’s HOW WE WILL Enter In.

    “I don’t have the ability nor do I desire to offend you ST, and please understand that I may be totally off here, but my observation is that you only care to discuss with those who will agree with you, after that, it becomes an argument.”

    The discussions i have are with any one that i can remember, but argument has a broad meaning…..some contentious and some not….but i think most would agree that my arguments are not contentious unless, for example, the Deity of Christ is challenged.

    Do you have an example to the contrary that i may openly acknowledge and apologize for?……i would very willing to comply.

    ” I find that many of the IMO you pose as truths are spiritually dangerous whether it involves end times UFO/Alien hogwash or the blood of Christ falling into the ground crevice and onto the ark of the covenant as some form of significance to end times prophecy, is Scripturally unsound.”

    If i say, IMO, it should not be considered truth….but only an opinion. UFO/Alien stuff will need to be Proven Either way…..i’m not adamant either way about those ideas.
    But surely you can not prove at all, that should the Blood of Christ have Fallen on the Ark Of the Covenant, that THAT Event would be scripturally unsound.

    We should discuss the possibilities of the archeology subjects on the other thread though…just to keep this one from straying to far from it’s intended path.

    “What I can’t figure out is, how so many of the assumptions, opinions of the “prophetic word” is now so easily accepted here where not too long ago, Adamantine, who actually made huge contributions here, was dragged through the mud, demoralized, called names and publically cast out (of which he graciously endured I might add and not one apology was shown) for far less offenses than that of what is being witnessed now. ”

    What assumptions and opinions are you referring to exactly? have i suggested something contrary to the written Word of God?
    What offenses have i made?

    The hope i have is that I’ve addressed your questions with love and respect….God will show us all if I’m in error regarding these ideas or not, His Name is Faithfull.

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  167. “On checking a number of translation on Bible Gateway I am only seeing KJV using take,..and most of the others using receive. I am not sure it is a kingdom we can take, except that we receive it as a gift from Christ.”

    It doesn’t matter if what is Received or Taken…..the point is….It MUST BE a Present Kingdom BEFORE for the Receiving or Taking.

    “Still this is beside the point, the Kingdom is won by Christ’s death. Why would I believe it to commence in some way at the 3 1/2 year time frame? Why is “THIS is GOD’S Battle…….BY His Spirit……IN the Saints…” more so now, than at any other time in post Messianic history? ”

    The Kingdom of Heaven has ALWAYS BEEN God’s, Christs death gave Us the Ability to Share and have our Citizenship in the Kingdom With Him.
    But the Kingdom of Heaven is………………..IN…………….Heaven….NOW…….
    Where We are Seated In Christ at the Right hand of the Father…….IN Heaven.

    But……….His Kingdom……Will Come….ON EARTH….as it IS……….IN Heaven………Then…..
    At the First Day of the Day of the Lord…..The First Day of the Final 3.5.

    I Could Surely be Wrong…….but We Will See.

    ““The saints will be handed over to him (the antichrist) for a time, times and half a time (3 1/2 yrs). (We will clearly appear to be losing this battle). THEN (eg. when Christ comes on the scene “court will sit”, ( the antichrist’s) “power will be taken away”, and “heaven handed over to the saints”. Under the rulership of our Messianic king,…now visible “on scene”.

    Oh no, not so……..we will be losing nothing but our earthly lives………..I’m glad you chose to add the word “appear”………because it certainly WILL Appear So….Because the Kingdom will be Without Observation……to the Natural Eye.

    “I am pretty sure Lucifer has as good or better handle on the time frame than even we do. He has had a VERY long time to study Scripture (an exercise that probably gives him heartburn, but that I sincerely doubt he avoids none the less). He knows as well as we do it IS the playbook of import, unrivaled by Nostradamus, the Theosophists, or the volumes of wickedness attached to the mystery religions. He knows the lay of the land for sure.”

    An Absolute Misnomer…….Truth is Dispatched by the Spirit of God…and the Loser does not have any portion of truth….in the Loser, there is NO TRUTH, Neither can he KNOW Truth.
    He ONLY Imagines that he Knows. If he Knew the “lay of the land” he would not have entered Judas…………….God WELL Knows the Foolish Attempts of the Loser, and Shares His Truth with the Saints ALONE.

    ” We have been slow to come to this battle equipped as would be befitting the King’s soldiers,…and our numbers our few. But thanks to sites like this,…our eyes are opening. The swords not quite so dull as they were. Uniforms being unpacked from old chests and shaken out. The battle is coming and we all know it….and not far from the door. Lord bless you richly. Nkosazana”

    Sure got that right……the Lord richly bless you too.

    .

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  168. “But……….His Kingdom……Will Come….ON EARTH….as it IS……….IN Heaven………Then…..
    At the First Day of the Day of the Lord…..The First Day of the Final 3.5.”

    Sorry I don’t find that a compelling argument for his kingdom being inaugurated here prior to his earthly arrival on this specific date.

    ” If he Knew the “lay of the land” he would not have entered Judas…………….God WELL Knows the Foolish Attempts of the Loser, and Shares His Truth with the Saints ALONE.”

    This is a dicey area. I agree that Satan did not understand the entire plan or he would of avoided the cross. I want to say it’s the Book of Enoch (but I’m not dead sure of that and don’t have time to go and look right now) that says Lucifier knows many of the secrets of God (perhaps more than we do….but does not know them all, and specifically not the deepest secrets) which undoubtedly entails the fact that once Christ died on the cross as an innocent non sinner, Satan would lose jurisdiction over planet earth, our kinsmen redeemer again legally our Ruler and Dispatcher. Had he known that, he would not have pursued the crucifixion. For him it was a curveball that spelled his demise. But I do not underestimate his knowledge of the Scripture, or it’s time table. I believe he understands it but still retains such a rebellious hatred of God he will fight to the end (perhaps even fully understanding he will lose, though divulging it to none). There are things of course about the time frames that none know but God. But I never ever underestimate Satan. He is a formidable enemy, one I would shudder to face, except in the presence of our far more formidable Captain of the Host of the Lords. Jesus SHALL reign,…I know it will be so.

    This has been an enjoyable interchange shorttribber. Thanks again for making me think.
    I will look forward to another time and other subjects. His own…thank you for being a comrade in arms. The fellowship and understanding of believers is sweet. May God’s grace guard us all from error, continue to light our path, and sustain our souls as we continue the journey toward the celestial city. Nkosazana

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  169. “I don’t have the ability nor do I desire to offend you ST, and please understand that I may be totally off here, but my observation is that you only care to discuss with those who will agree with you, after that, it becomes an argument.”
    really enforcing? you think that? you may not have the desire but maybe? you have the ability to offend? perhaps…..i am sorry but your observation is off and the many posts of his here prove that his tone is gracious. (and helpful-not trying to bully us to his position and can admit repeatedly that he is only waiting and watching with open heart and mind like we are all supposed to be). shorttribber is a gentleman and a scholar. we can disagree around here without that stoop can’t we? i hope you will reconsider that opinion.

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  170. ” I want to say it’s the Book of Enoch (but I’m not dead sure of that and don’t have time to go and look right now) that says Lucifier knows many of the secrets of God (perhaps more than we do….but does not know them all, and specifically not the deepest secrets) which undoubtedly entails the fact that once Christ died on the cross as an innocent non sinner, Satan would lose jurisdiction over planet earth, our kinsmen redeemer again legally our Ruler and Dispatcher. ”

    Good discussion, yes, but it’s best not to put any confidence at All in the Book of Enoch…best not to even discuss it.
    The Loser Never had “Jurisdiction” over the earth to begin with…..The Earth is the Lord’s and the FULNESS thereof…..always has been always will.
    God just “Shared with Adam….Dominion” This is when there was PERFECT COMMUNION…Common UNION WITH God”…………..in other words, Adam was Able in the beginning to Share/Have Communion WITH GOD in HIS DOMINION of the Earth and All of it’s FULLNESS.

    So many Christians are under the impression that because the Loser said that he could Give Christ all the Kingdoms of the earth that it must be so………Not True at All……ALL The Loser Does is Lie……And THAT…….Was just another LIE.

    The Earth and it’s Kingdom’s have ALWAYS been God’s to Set up and Pull Down the Earth IS the Lord’s…..That’s the Truth.

    ““But……….His Kingdom……Will Come….ON EARTH….as it IS……….IN Heaven………Then…..
    At the First Day of the Day of the Lord…..The First Day of the Final 3.5.”

    Sorry I don’t find that a compelling argument for his kingdom being inaugurated here prior to his earthly arrival on this specific date.

    It’s Not Proof, no, especially regarding the Timing, just as you say……it’s just another piece of evidence in scripture that does, when weighed along with others regarding The kingdom, add to a sound conclusion.

    Bless ya 🙂

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  171. Nkosazana, may the Lord show you just how much your light is needed here and pray that you will continue posting as time permits.We need your discernment and courage as the days grow darker and the deception waxeth worse.

    I heed the warning of this verse daily! 2Ti 3:13

    But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    These *words should not only be a banner of truth for this discussion group but a clear warning of how quickly one can be deceived by their { our } own hearts.

    When we start to justify , defend or even take sides with error, then we are in some pretty serious waters as a group. Is this not how the cults work?

    God has given every one of us the RIGHT to question, disagree or even challenge a ” teaching” or an opinion that is being promoted as ” discussion” . As I’ve mentioned a few posts up there is a huge red flag in my spirit { been for some time now } and the Holy Spirit won’t release me from it. I’ve known from the past that there is validation in that red flag and God ALWAYS bring’s it to the light one way or another.I will wait on Him and in my waiting , will see the Lord raise up other voices to vocalize the same concerns.

    From the link Andre posted 🙂

    *”But the poor Israelites did not recognize these things about themselves; they did not realize what was in their hearts until their time of testing came. I believe the same is true of God’s people today. The prophet Jeremiah writes, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9).

    But they had no idea what was in their hearts; in truth, they were spiritually bankrupt.

    Beloved, you cannot get God’s true revelation from someone else”

    We sure are living in the most diabolical times known unto man…no wonder Jesus asked if He would find faith when He returns !

    Unfortunately some of us get ” enticed “far easier than others but then again that’s for another discussion.

    Jam 1:14
    But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away……..>>>>>> of his own lust, and enticed.

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  172. oh yes. is that not a very telling thing? it is right to question amen! and………..i do hope that if we err it is that we will all err on the side of Grace. the Love of Jesus is to be promoted here just as much as the Truth amen? without Love i am nothing (and have nothing useful to say). i am having to do a heart check on that very thing myself. a Truth check and a Grace check are getting more important to me all the time now. Love to you all in Christ Jesus.

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  173. Shorttribber I would only put this forward for your consideration…from Don Koenig, I think a quite good explanation on his commentary of Rev 5:

    “Under the Mosaic law, land cannot be taken from God’s people permanently. In ancient Israel, under the law when land was sold, the losses were written down in a scroll and then it was sealed. The conditions for getting the property back were written on the outside for anyone to read. If the person died a relative who could meet the conditions on the outside of the scroll, could purchase the property back. This chapter is talking about a kinsman redeemer from Adam rightfully taking back possession of Adam’s right to rule on earth. God gave that right to Adam but he apparently lost this stewardship to angels by allowing sin and death to come into the world. [“Romans 6:16: Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you ovey–whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”]. The conditions written on the outside require a sinless person to open the scroll, This chapter tells us that Jesus paid the Kinsman price of redemption and will open the scroll about this redemption after fulfilling the requirements written on the outside of the scroll and starting the transfer of the administration of the earth from the prince of angels (Satan) back to man.

    Ge 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

    In the right hand of God is a scroll with writing on the outside and inside. This scroll was sealed with seven seals. In those days books were written on papyrus or vellum that was rolled up. If the content of the scroll was official it was sealed by the seal of the one with that authority. Only someone who met the requirements written on the outside of the scroll would be found worthy to unseal and read the scroll. When an important legal scroll was written, a portion would be written and then rolled up and sealed. Later more could be added and then it would be rolled and sealed again. This process was done to keep prying eyes out until the final seal was placed on the scroll. This scroll that Jesus will open had seven such seals.

    The inside of the scroll contains the events that must occur in heaven and on earth before man can be restored to administrate the creation of God. As the scroll is unrolled it sets in motion the events that must take place for this restoration to occur. All sin from the time of Adam must be paid for and indeed has been paid for by the sacrifice that God fulfilled through the death of His Son Jesus on the cross. Those who accepted the free gift of God’s sacrifice for all sin during the acceptable year of the Lord (Luk 4:19), will not experience the wrath from God that must come on the enemies of God who reject the only provision God gave to save and restore mankind. This plan of restoration comes through the second Adam (Jesus) and He must come and rule on earth in order to defeat all of the enemies of God. If Jesus did not come to save the world, the world would come to total destruction through the deception of Satan (Mat 24:22).”
    http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20chapter%205.htm . Nkosazana

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  174. Thank you Andre’. I’m sorry you misinterpreted (and misquoted) what was written.
    God Bless you

    Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    2 Corinthians 3:5-6

    But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, you shall abide in Him.
    I John 2:27

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  175. Nkosazana,
    That is a wonderful post, it is as some things I’ve looked into before.
    Tell ya what though, you’ve added some very interesting parts to the idea though.
    I’ll explain later just Why this Fits so very perfectly into Shorttrib/Prewrath a bit later….in the shop now.

    Blessings to ya again 🙂

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  176. i am only in the hopes that you will give shortttribber more credit as a poster here. he does not pick fights nor try to continue them. that is what i was noting and questioning about your response. not intended to misrepresent or misquote only ask is that really how his posts strike you? yes. the Lord’s Holy Spirit is our Teacher-the only One truly Trustworthy. i know you agree that is the bottom line. may God bless you too. we do not see each others faces nor hear tones of a voice and our typed words are all we have of each other so i want to give and receive Grace among those we call brethren.

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  177. Howdy again,
    Wow, i’m so beat from the work in the shop….just need to rest right now, really need it.
    Can’t post in the morning either, got to hit the road early and meet some customers to deliver some trim and pic up more.
    Hopefully i’ll feel more rested tomorrow and will post some more…really wanted to post about the Seventh seal but can’t until i’m able to focus more.

    Blessings to y’all ………..anyone know how to make a little sleepy face like the smile? (*_*)Zzzzzz

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  178. Yes amen Andre, a “Truth check” is what we all need to do daily 🙂

    Earlier today I was bemoaning { yeah that’s it } to a prayer partner how there seems to be a silencing of the lambs { she liked that } and a deafening of the ears towards any ministry that is exposing the dangerous spiritual pit falls we can all fall into. I just got this in my e-mail 🙂

    I praise God for Larry DeBruyn and Sarah Leslie.

    A few quotes .

    THURSDAY, DECEMBER 05, 2013
    Selfie Scriptura

    Selfie religion” includes written and/or spoken words of prophecy, declarations, decrees and other religious pronouncements, based upon heretofore unrevealed (“secret”) divine messages, which mark the recipients as “special,” a cut above other evangelicals. (See Jeremiah 23:28.) This resonates with a culture that needs heroes and stars.

    Along a selfie’s spiritual journey a special visitation of receiving divine words that transport the hearer to higher realms of glory, thus affirming their personal progress towards deification.

    These selfie celebrities thus are crowned luminaries in God’s kingdom, and the cult of the personality is formed.[2]

    Note: Selfie Scriptura is not to be confused with Narcigesis, which is reading into and interpreting Scripture through the lens of one’s own self.[3] { http://herescope.blogspot.ca/2012/02/narcigesis.html}

    http://herescope.blogspot.ca

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  179. yes…and we cannot speak the Truth in Love (and edify ears and hearts) with out the necessary Grace check. Jesus was and is Perfectly Both. this is the balance i ask Jesus for that His Spirit Alone in me can create.
    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His Glory, the Glory as of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of Grace and Truth. john 1:14.
    Truth without Grace is brutal (been there done that) and Grace without Truth is hypocrisy (been there done that one too). i need prayer–i need His Spirit to teach and empower me. i’m seeking to learn from His meek and lowly Heart (matt 11:29) that beautiful balance so that my life would rightly represent my Savoir. Beautiful You! / shine in me Jesus! this world is dark and You are the Light of the world!

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  180. and that is very good calling it out there in the above hisown! selfie scriptura and narcigese totally nails it! it is the very sad fact that people are still caught up in the age old dilemma-in the original lie from the devil casting dispersion upon the Very Word of God. and it led eve to think—did God really say that? and so she thought to herself and interpreted for herself instead of just believing what God had actually said! and she made it about herself (about what was forbidden she thought well it looks good for me-to me…) so here we are………..nothing new under the sun. i am so thankful for God’s Grace! He gave me this faith to believe Him-in the Son of God my Savior \ 0 /

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  181. “The inside of the scroll contains the events that must occur in heaven and on earth before man can be restored to administrate the creation of God. As the scroll is unrolled it sets in motion the events that must take place for this restoration to occur.”

    Absolutely Correct.

    Ok, here’s what’s so neat about what you’ve said and how it fits so well with Final 3.5, shorttrib/Prewrath idea.
    Trying to explain some of this is difficult, but not because it’s so greatly complicated, it’s because folks have trouble grasping the idea that the revelation to John does not occur in a 123456789 and 10 format.
    Read slow at this point because this is where many folks go…ohhhh, I know, it has “Parentheses”, yada yada yada, but I’m not talking about that.
    The “Sealed Scroll” is one of the most Important parts of the Revelation to John to Understand……one reason is the idea you’ve mentioned Nkosazana, and that reason speaks of the “Doctrinal” aspect of the scroll.
    The other Criticaly Important aspect of the Sealed Scroll is the Fact that it is, just as you said, Sealed until the Seventh Seal is broken and the Scroll…….OPENS.

    The Sealed Scroll is AS the Preface of the Larger Complete Revelation to John.
    It is as the preface of a Book…….It Foretells/Previews in a Condensed Manner, the Battle for The kingdom of God…….from the Time of the “Spirit of Antichist’s “, “War Against the Saints” VIA, Roman Papacy (white Horse), Communism ( Red Horse), Capitalism and Lawless Anarchy (Black horse), and Next, the Muslim/Ecumenical/Roman Catholic/Mystery Babylonian Amalgamation OF the FINAL Antichrist Loser Man.
    The Seals have been opening with a layering effect that has allowed a day for a year fulfillment of the 1260 days, but will also have Another 1,260 day Literal Fulfillment.
    For those who choose not to believe that there is a layering of prophecy, suit yourself, but it is dispersed throughout prophetic books and the evidence is overwhelming.
    The reason is simple, God knows that the Loser THINKS he Knows the “lay of the land”……hahahahahaha……God just let’s him Think so….and brings the Loser to confusion by planting decoy fulfillments along the way to drive him crazy.

    Ok back on track. Here’s what Really Needs to be Comprehended…….When the following words are spoken in this two texts below….
    Rev 6
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
    AND
    Rev 11
    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    These TWO Texts SHARE the SAME TIME FRAME.
    The Seals are a PREVIEW/Condensed Version of the Larger VISION contained in the Trumpet Judgments.

    The Reason some of the Larger Vision of the Battle for the Kingdom is shown and Already Revealed in the First Three horses and riders is because………We Know in Part….We’ve Witnessed these Three Riders/Challengers against the Kingdom of God.
    But…………..SOON…….the Seventh Seal WILL OPEN. The comments I’ve always heard that is just simply a stumbling block for folks is this….something like this is the question “How can the Next EVENT be the Opening of the Seventh Seal when the opening of the FOURTH SEAL (antichrist rider) Hasn’t opened yet?”

    Because….the seals are A PREVIEW…as I said…Like the Preface in a Book….to Preview the Larger Content of the Book (Vision).

    The reason the Church and the 144,000 are SEEN by John in chapter Seven……Remember…..(Who shall be Able to Stand?), That’s WHY they are SEEN at this Point………………….Chapter 7(Seven).
    Chapter 7, THEN Seventh Seal OPENS, Then 7 Seven Trumpet Angels.

    NEXT EVENT is the OPENING of the SEVENT SEAL……………the Eyes of our Understanding (the Wise Shall Understand/Let them that Read Understand)will be OPENED ALSO……..@@@@@@@@the AOD……..And the FINAL BATTLE for the Kingdom WILL BE ON!!!
    The Scroll…………….OPEN…….the Vision………OPEN………..OWNERSHIP of the KINGDOM ………..On Earth as IT IS IN HEAVEN………………………………..OPEN!!!!!!!
    The Battle is the LORD’S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The Seven trumpets at the READY!!!!!!!!!!

    Look at this Video

    Look at the April 2014 Blood Moon timing@@@@@@the FEAST of TRUMPETS!!!!!!!!
    Look how Exact this fits the 3.5 year Timeframe!!!!!!!!

    Agreement with every part is not the point I’m making…not in agreement with several parts…I’m Only referring to the TIMING of the Blood Moons from April 2014 and the FEAST day correlations as they continue Until 2017.

    Again, I could be wrong……but I don’t think so…….guess we’ll SEE…….MAYBE April 2014.

    Wouldn’t that be just Dandy?

    Blessings to all 🙂

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  182. i believe the blood moons and the events being scheduled by the global machine are lining up incredibly. and if nothing else it is making me want to sit on the edge of my seat which is what i should be doing as i wait to see this unfold! i believe that there are multiple layers of the prophetic being uncovered and discovered sometimes in the same timeframe but never thought of it as messing with the devils plans/timing 😉 — God is firmly in control! — oh most definitely time will tell and the Lord promises that we will understand. thanks for the discussion everyone. makes me think……and makes me pray.

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  183. Whoa there, hold your horses….(smile) okay a pun, but you have to admit just a little bit funny. Shorttribber you sure put forth some interesting ideas. They aren’t all cemented in a lot of Scriptural fact, but they are sure interesting, and hold at least some, maybe real gems, of potential truth I like to ponder. What a nice person to jouney along the trail with. I love it when people make me think, whether I agree or not. I probably don’t comment a lot on this blog because a fair amount of stuff to me is not very plausible, or very relevant…but non again I get sort of jarred. And jarred is sort of good from my standpoint, it’s like stumbling on a diamond. A piece of the puzzle. Nothing is more interesting right now to me than finding all the pieces to the puzzle.

    I can’t go along with your identifications of the 4 horsemen and their riders. Doesn’t click for me. Sorry. But the proposition that the seven seals constitute a prelude to the final 3 1/2 years is an interesting thought. I always wondered about this pealing back just enough to get a glimpse without being able to see the whole thing. But juxtapositioning the idea of a preface or even a foreshadowing of what is to come with the seals is certainly worth some thought time. Of course the stated description by Koenig would be that it is a detailed description of what the Kinsmen Redeemer must accomplish to have access to the scroll, perhaps referring to his deeds not only of being sinless, and freely offering himself as our Sacrifice, being truly human though truly God, being our kinsmen avenger of blood, our legal heir to the throne and High Priest (I am sure there is more). But we are given by Scripture these insights it seems to me of what will be happening as he breaks and opens each seal. I am not feeling it that it looks back 1260 years. But that it may be telling us what is happening in the first 3 1/2 years prior to the scroll being opened entailing the last 3 1/2 years has a certain amount of plausibility to it. Hmmmm…. Certainly worth thinking about.

    The video was also interesting. It is hard to overlook these correlations of heavenly events to earthly holy days that a number of writers and bloggers are pointing to. Scripture tells us clearly things are going to happen and I see no reason that these events could not fit the bill. I can’t imagine an interested party not wanting to note the dates on their calenders. If these events entail the final 3 1/2 years and begin in early 2014, then it puts some pressure to seeing all the events of the 7 seals accomplished in such a way that people can clearly recognize it (and I am of the ilk to believe that as these things happen interested parties will be able to clearly see and understand and marvel at this fulfillment s of Scripture) prior to those dates. But hey things are moving faster and faster, so I’m not going to be the person to say the Lord can pull it all off prior to the 15th of April. Wars change things in a BIG hurry. Much to think upon. You’ve got the cogs moving Shorttribber thanks again for sharing. And the rest of you,…you’ve have been very kind to me. Much appreciated. Nkosazana.

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  184. “They aren’t all cemented in a lot of Scriptural fact, but they are sure interesting, and hold at least some, maybe real gems, of potential truth I like to ponder.”

    Thanx for the edifying response, but I must ask what portions in particular are not supported in scripture? My purpose in not adding a great deal of scripture refs. is primarily for two reasons: one reason is time and space, I type very slow and adding in all the texts makes things very lengthy and sometimes will help prove certain points, but also causes some breaks during the flow of thought when I’m fumbling around on the keyboard. The other is that hopefully there will be a question regarding one or two points at a time that I can respond to and provide ample scripture support.

    Please let me know which points specifically you desire scriptures for that will make the ideas more “Concrete”…..no pun intended….hahahaha…now that’s funny right there ya gotta admit 🙂

    Bless ya bunches

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  185. “But that it may be telling us what is happening in the first 3 1/2 years prior to the scroll being opened entailing the last 3 1/2 years has a certain amount of plausibility to it.”

    this sentence may need to be rephrased, I’m not sure of the meaning you intended.
    I just don’t quite understand the meaning.

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  186. …the enemy is subtle, how be it were deceived, when the truths in our hearts ,and we still don’t believe! ?????? Mr. Bob Dylan, Slow train-a-comin’ album, the song called, “Precious Angel”

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  187. The enemy is so very subtle and deceptive agreed….but so is the heart of man!!

    Jer 17:9
    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

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  188. in my estimation, the heart is the deepest part of our mind. The knowledge of truth makes it way into our hearts first yes,……but then the transforming renewal takes place only when[as a result of that heartfelt knowledge] we surrender our will; as the fear of God brings to us the beginning of wisdom. hi colleen

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  189. Nkosazana,
    There hasn’t been much in the way of comments, just busy things in all our lives I think.
    Anyway, I wanted to comment briefly on the quote I posted above…i’ll repost it here..

    ““But that it may be telling us what is happening in the first 3 1/2 years prior to the scroll being opened entailing the last 3 1/2 years has a certain amount of plausibility to it.”

    this sentence may need to be rephrased, I’m not sure of the meaning you intended.
    I just don’t quite understand the meaning.

    The meaning you intended is something yet unclear to me, but I wanted to mention regarding this, ” telling us what is happening in the first 3 1/2 years”.
    The “first 3 1/2 years” is already history and was fulfilled by Christ. That’s how I understand it anyway….so my only focus is on the Final 3 1/2.
    The seals then are Partly Historic and Partly Future…..
    Revealed Only Partly….as they are now….Until the Seventh Seal is Broken.

    now consider the idea you’ve previously mentioned regarding the ” transfer of the administration of the earth ”

    Think about the “Aministration” or Governorship……………how much does the Idea of “Governorship/Administration” Reasonably Agree with what I’ve been saying the Historic Representation of what seals “Reveal”………….
    A. Religious power (white horse)
    B. Political power (red horse)
    C. Economic power (black horse)
    All of these Powers were given there Chance to Destroy the Elect of God Over Time. But we have God’s promise (covenant/testament) that the gates of hell will NOT PREVAIL over His church! please excuse me while I take a lap and shout just a minute!…..just kiddn’……….we WIN this thing!
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Now, what color of ……FLAG………most represents ISLAM?………..Right….GREEN….PALE GREEN

    This is the REVALATION of the “Administration/Governing Powers” that are NOW Present.
    BUT…….Will be………Finally Destroyed…..Starting with the Opening of the Seventh Seal.

    The Fourth Horseman………The Loser/antichrist and his antichristian World Dominion Agenda
    And the Koran/Islamic Number Unholy Number of 666

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  190. What did Christ Say?

    Math 11
    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

    We are to pray…the Lord’s Will be DONE ON EARTH as IT IS in Heaven.

    What Violence ON EARTH has been DONE…..BY MIGHT/FORCE/POWER?…..By THESE?
    A. Religious power (white horse)
    B. Political power (red horse)
    C. Economic power (black horse)
    and…..
    Now, what color of ……FLAG………most represents ISLAM?………..Right….GREEN….PALE GREEN

    Think about it….
    But What Does the Word of God Say About THESE POWERS……

    Zech 4
    3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
    4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
    5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me,……………………………….. Knowest thou not what these be?………………………………………… And I said, No, my lord.
    6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by…………….. Might,…………………. nor by………………….. POWER,…………….. but by……………….. my spirit,………………….. saith the LORD of hosts.

    Remember…this passage REAVEALS the Two Witnesses Source FOR…God’s RULING Strength……………..His Holy SPIRIT.

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  191. Compare these two texts….

    and the like Promises, Made by an Oath….

    Gen 22
    16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
    17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and…………………… thy seed………….. shall ……………….possess the gate…………….. of his enemies;
    18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    Math 16
    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the…………………. gates of hell shall not prevail………………… against it.
    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Now take Note of the OPEN SCROLL in the Mighty Angels Hand……..And what he Says…..

    Rev 10
    5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
    6 And………….. sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,………….. who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the …………….mystery of God should be finished,…………….. as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
    8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book (SCROLL)…………….which is open…………….. in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
    9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

    Heb 6
    13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
    14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
    15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
    16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
    17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto…….. the heirs of promise……….. the………………… immutability of his counsel,……. confirmed…………….. it by an oath:

    How then shall HE FINISH the CONFIRMATION with Many?
    BY AN OATH…………This One….

    6 And………….. sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,………….. who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the …………….mystery of God should be finished,…………….. as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    The Abrahamic Covenant IS the Covenant that Has Been and WILL BE……CONFIRMED………And the Immutability of God’s Counsel………..Will Be REVEALED.

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  192. Wow Shorttribber, your head must be going a mile a minute…which is about how mine goes. I wish there was indeed more time…and more topic headings….I think these long, long posts of hundreds discourage people from reading it all and getting involved. I really wish that there were more topic headings put forth more frequently and these mega postings were sort of avoided by that mechanism. And I wish people stayed on topic to the post at hand,…but I suppose in a group of friends that is not so easily done.

    I didn’t respond to your post in part because I am delving into the blood moons as I want to integrate them in my sermon Sunday, but also because we just aren’t in the same ball park regarding the horsemen. Again I can see a certain plausibility to your identifications, but I just do not tend to see Scripture becoming so esoteric in interpretation. I think a more traditional and easier understood analysis is more likely. I personally think Zechariah 6 may tell us something about where the horsemen ride,…though comparing that with your analysis does not jive. I also think that if it were world empire type strategies (communism etc.) it would have to directly impact Israel…as Scripture clearly portrays Israel as central, and all things needing to be interpreted from the Jerusalem venue…. Some of your ideas don’t work well from that setting, they effecting more, other parts of the world. At anyrate, I guess I am just not thinking we are close enough on this one to make debate productive. We really are on different roads here. But roads that perhaps at some point will intertwine again. Nkosazana

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  193. dear participants, to note; short-tribber is dealing with a thing or two and would like me to let you all know that he will be replugged into the works here on this incredible subject matter probably by thursday

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  194. Nkosazana, that was so beautifully shared and spoken. Thank-you 🙂

    Just a suggestion. Why not zap Vic or Rob a quick e-mail on what you’re currently working on and maybe that can open another topic of discussion on the exciting upcoming blood moons. I for one would be so blessed to hear your sermon. {HINT, HINT!! }

    I’m sure that will gender a pretty lively discussion 🙂

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  195. His own you are a gem. I have emailed Vic and Rob on a number of occasions and they generally have not been too receptive to some of my idea suggestions. Which is fine, I think they do a very good job, and they are both over whelmed with all they need to do. I am finding the blood moon subject interesting. But there is a GREAT deal regarding it on the web. Don’t think I could give an original thought about them,…. But since Jesus’ first coming was heralded with a star, I find it reasonable to think that his second coming will be also heralded by signs in the sky,…and can’t imagine Christians not believing they should be paying a lot of attention to this very rare circumstance of the tetrads on the holy days coming up. It is totally Scriptural,…and there won’t be another occurrence this century….and I firmly believe this is the “season” ,…not another century from now. Isn’t it crazy how you just know everything will be awful…and yet I can’t help but feel excited. Jesus is on the other side of this and there is no way to get there,..without moving ahead,– so: Even so Lord Jesus COME!!!! Please, dear sweet Savior, Come. We need you so. Nkosazana

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  196. amen,nkosazana,….have you seen Larson’s video on, The Star of Bethlehem? and by the way, have you watched Chris Whites youtube video- Debunking the blood moons??? you know, [CHECKS N BALANCES],..opposing viewpoints.

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  197. You are so very right about giving fair time to opposing viewpoints Tony. And I certainly agree there is more to this than just the tetrads….maybe a supervolcano spewing…? I personally think the tetrads will be mild compared to all that God plans to be doing. White makes a fair point that it is a head’s up…it is not the kind of pin point prophecy that God’s word is characterized by. I believe that when things get started it will definitely be a “fasten your seatbelt” scenario. If God is going to maybe reunite the 7 continents in this time frame…I can hardly conceive the shakin’ that’s gonna be going on. I’m a midwife…it’s a big difference in those little niggles as the beginning and what can be happening only a few hours later. I believe it will escalate quickly and nobody…I mean nobody will be able to escape the conclusion that something way different than has ever happened before is afoot. God is so often “overlooked and sidelined” in our culture… but that,….is about to come to a screeching halt. (see me with my raised fist pulling my arm down, saying….YES)

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  198. seriously,…you rock, nkosazana! nice response. TALK ABOUT BIGGER THAN LIFE ITSELF! like jerry lew lewis said, “theres gonna be a whole lotta shakin’ goin’ on!!!

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  199. Oh that’s precious Nkosazana and here I thought you were a ” brother’!! But then again midwifery can be both male and female right!

    You mentioned that you would be incorporating the ” blood moons” into your sermon, { are you a pastor now ?} Would you please be so kind as to send the link { if you prefer not to post it here } and ask either Vic or Rob to FWD that to me please.

    Forgive me for my forwardness but you know me by now…I just say it right 🙂

    Oh and Eh Tony, I was led to pray for you this morning… capisci? 🙂

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  200. Back now…computer up….and I’ll tell ya what…..God showed me some stuff this morning that……………….WoW………gonna post it later tonight!!!!!!…..can’t do it now.

    Hint….it’s How the Horses and Riders of Rev.6, and the Chariots and Horses of Zech 6 are………….Related…..Historically and for the TIME that Remains.

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  201. colleen , what can i say , i appreciate you to the point of no return!,…thanks for your prayers. /////// my babies were all 3 born w/ midwives nkosazana cause my wonderful amazing wife is so deeply in tune w/ something inexpressible and truthfully lovely….even tho we are apart now and actually divorced to my utter amazement……..i miss her n love her,…she choose natural childbirth, and i will never ever get over it. We have 3 boys. Thats a covenant.

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  202. Tony your pain shows and my prayer for you is that there will be reconcilialtion . We serve an awesome God and He HONOURS that covenant. I love Malachi chapter 2 🙂

    I will pray for your boys and your wife as well and can’t even begin to understand the pain your boys must be going through. This drives me even into more prayer!

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  203. Blood moon links:
    http://www.pray4zion.org/TheComingBloodMoons.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25L8YA9KX8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCcg8ht_3G0
    But there are many more if you google blood moon or blood moon tetrads.
    I am retirement age Hisown but because of the times can’t think of not being on the firing line. I am mentoring two pastors, supplying frequently, and teaching adult Sunday school. Will do whatever the Lord gives me opportunity to do…the time is short. Nkosazana is a Zulu word for daughter of the king,…single missionary woman are often so addressed.

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  204. Haha Nkosazana , I should have known that right! I need to brush up on my Zulu that’s fer sure { blushing }.

    Will look at the links you provided.

    Blessings and love to you.

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  205. ” I personally think Zechariah 6 may tell us something about where the horsemen ride,…though comparing that with your analysis does not jive. I also think that if it were world empire type strategies (communism etc.) it would have to directly impact Israel…as Scripture clearly portrays Israel as central, and all things needing to be interpreted from the Jerusalem venue…. Some of your ideas don’t work well from that setting”

    You’re right Nkosazana, about the info overload, but it just keeps coming in so quickly and we just got to keep sharing it as much as we can I think.
    Don’t think there’s much more time to get info out.
    Anyway, it’s true that Israel is Central in prophecy primarily Geographically, and “ALL” Israel as “A” People.
    But that’s partly where anyone can be misled, be it but slightly, and that’s because the Actual Center of Bible Prophecy is………The “Promised Seed” Himself/Christ/God…….not Israel.

    ” I personally think Zechariah 6 may tell us something about where the horsemen ride”

    Where they ride Is relevant, but What they Represent is of Far greater value in our understanding, especially in their relationship to the Horses and Riders of Rev 6.

    You mentioned about making posts not so lengthy, that’s understandable, but what can a person do if the subject is so complicated and explanation can’t be made without traversing many aspects of a given topic? That’s why I’ve suggested that if a certain portion has questionable scriptural evidence, we could all be asked to provide those scriptures one portion/piece at a time.

    On several occasions I’ve asked God to show me the relationship between the Horses and Chariots and the Horses and Riders of Zech. and Rev., but it was yesterday morning that He Answered.

    that will be on my next post……so as to keep this posts length to a minimum.

    Bless ya’ll 🙂

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  206. I was not referring to the length of your posts shorttribber, but to the length of the combined posts…in this particular one we are up to 264 posts. Not many people will take that on and it makes it hard to advise another person to read a particular post that is buried in such a long listing it can’t hardly be found. I wish we would keep the posting lengths to under 100, starting a new one when the subject matter wanders as it did from this initial post on Psalm 83. Nkosazana

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  207. Nkosazana I agree 🙂

    I found the video clip Shortribber posted { buried } in the responses and wanted to know if you agree that the April 2014 Blood Moon’s would be the opening up of the 7th seal ? or what is your understanding in this?

    This would then mean the beginning of the 42 months, the { final } expulsion of Satan and the AOD all starting in less than four months correct?

    Am running late for work here, ..sorry for the hasty question 🙂

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  208. I have thought Hisown that a number of the seals and even later trumpets etc,..could be accounted to events that have occurred in the last couple of years. However I don’t know that to be true at all. I don’t see us having our feet on firm ground till we see the abomination of desolation or the two witnesses. Till then we are all “supposin” but none “knowin”. Nkosazana

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  209. “I found the video clip Shortribber posted { buried } in the responses and wanted to know if you agree that the April 2014 Blood Moon’s would be the opening up of the 7th seal ? or what is your understanding in this?
    This would then mean the beginning of the 42 months, the { final } expulsion of Satan and the AOD all starting in less than four months correct?”

    I did misunderstand the length idea about the posts…sorry bout that 🙂

    About the April 2014 Blood Moons……Yep…certainly a Real Possibility IMO…..Opening of the Seventh Seal too…Yep.

    And in my next post you’ll see how exactly this idea fits with the Horses, Horsemen, and Chariots too.

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  210. i am enjoying this discussion because it is just that-a discussion-with no agendas anywhere! i love all of you and what you all bring to this. makes me think and i know yall agree we need to stay sharp. iron against iron does that 😉 it is a long comment section and i do not mind because have followed all along. i can see where it would be kind of hard to jump in midway though. i believe we need to watch these moons and dates closely….if we see armies amassing against israel in those timeframes we will know what is coming to pass-God is directing us even in the “dim light” at the moment but will turn on the “highlights” for us when we are needing it most. all the political moving and shaking going on (among very key players) all around the whole subject of israel’s land, jerusalem and temple mount tells us the the rotten fruit is truly beginning to get “ripe” and going to need a big conflict for someone to come in and establish their ownsupersized “blanket” of “peace and safety” right? i love the meaning of your name nkosazana! God bless you all. Jesus the King loves His children! 🙂

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  211. Andre you said ” if we see armies amassing against israel in those timeframes we will know what is coming to pass”

    “NATO/USA” TROOPS EXACTLY !!!and not only that but we will KNOW that Satan has been expelled! It won’t be a ” hmmm or a aaahh ” is he or is he not , but a deep sense of knowing! That alone reassures me like none other.

    “About the two witnesses”, well that’s reserved for the other thread but I pray that many will begin to understand that we play a major role in that 🙂

    Exciting times that’s for sure!

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  212. The intention I had to post yesterday about the Chariots, Horses and Riders was delayed because the material began to be kind of lengthy.
    Based on Nkosazana’s suggestion to have more varied threads to post and discuss specific topics, it’s a good idea probably to send the material to Vic first for review and the beginning of a new thread.
    Agreed ?

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  213. The soon arrival of the troops?

    American troops could guard the border between a Palestinian state and Jordan, US Secretary of State John Kerry reportedly proposed to Palestinian officials amid discussions of a security plan for a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-offers-to-guard-jordan-valley-palestinians-say/

    Spoke with three separate { strong , solid believers } this week who all live cities /countries apart from each other and every one of them said the very same thing……”that something is just not right” and quote a sister in Christ .”I feel evil is slithering along side and hell has widened it’s open mouth”

    Have you guys felt an intense upsurge of a major spiritual battle lately?

    Let’s never forgot that it’s His Word that will direct our paths in the days ahead! How awesome is that to have the perfect road map for our ultimate destination 😉

    Isa 26:3
    Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

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  214. I think the time is VERY short. I just spent part of yesterday watching the rest of steve ciocilanti’s end time videos. He certainly comes to some different conclusions than most, and I was prepared to argue with him…but he has a kind, good, spirit…and really I couldn’t find a lot to argue with. Everything is so coming together. I can’t keep from weeping for the countless throngs that are so unprepared. I want so much to wake people up…but it is so hard to jar them loose from their lethargy. I so love my Savior…but I have such an aching heart right now. It is hard not to weep upon your bed. I pray that this feeling of imminent trouble will be wide spread and so yet bring many to the realization they need a real and active relationship with Christ. “TODAY is the day of salvation”….I think it has never been more true. Nkosazana

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  215. yhippie or maybe its Yippie!, gosh i hate to leave the hippie out. Lord, i pray for all hippies to come to YOU,…bring ’em on home Lord, in Christ., amen

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  216. sorry for not posting anything folks…computer went down again a couple days before Christmas.

    Still putting notes together Vic also…Merry Christmas and happy New Year to all 🙂

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  217. Seems a bit much for the average believer to endeavor or want to be bothered by when we can be having simple dialog with our Lord and Savior, Yeshua, Jesus, and deepening our personal relationship instead of extrapolating and conducting math exercises. Seems to make more sense to me than constantly wanting or demanding a sign.
    We were told to preach the gospel to all creation, to occupy and to love God with all of our hearts, minds and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves.
    Pre, mid, post tribulation rapture, who cares? As long as the Holy Spirit chooses to use us to witness to the next wayward soul, I am here for the yardage and duration. I use to pray Jesus come quickly, then I realized how selfish I was.
    However, there was a day that I was big into eschatology and prophecy…..for what it is worth and not to ruin anyone’s book deal or math exercises, as follows:
    Prince Hassan bin Talal, 42nd cousin to Mohammed via Fatima. Author of the Oslo Accord, the only person since Saddam Hussein that was able to get the Shiite and Sunni to the table for peace talks. He is accepted by the Muslims, Jews and Vatican/Catholics. As part of the Jordanian royal blood Prince Hassan bin tlal shares rights as a Hashemite. The Hashemites hold title to the property on the temple mound. Many have argued that the accord is the peace plan and it is a matter of enforcement, not establishment of the peace treaty.
    Incidentally it was announce a few weeks ago that Jordan has hired our CIA to train Shiite gorillas to be sent back into Iraq. My opinion: A means to have the dogs on the leach as trained mercenaries for the Shiite. Want to invoke peace? Call the ones you trained and paid to back off. Step in, bring the peace to Iraq and then let the chaotic state of Palestine and Israel be forced to take not of one who mended Babylon the Great.
    While this is all interesting, I choose to spend my time talking with God. Although the post War of Psalm 83 maps can only lead one to conclude concerning Israel that our God is an awesome God.

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