Final warning?

By Gary Kah

In June my family and I traveled to Connecticut for what would be my last speaking engagement for awhile. We had a wonderful time of fellowship with the saints at this conference, including Bill Koenig (the other speaker) and his wife Claudia. After saying our good-byes, we took some time to visit New York City on the way home. Our two younger children had never been to Ellis Island or the Statue of Liberty; so we decided to show them these and other significant sites.

After arriving on Liberty Island we made our way to a platform from where we could view the Manhattan skyline. I had forgotten how massive this city is. As we stood there in awe of the seemingly endless expanse of towers made of concrete and steel, dark ominous clouds began rolling in over the skyline. The scene was rather eerie. At that moment the Lord, I believe, impressed upon my heart that this would be the last time I would physically see New York City.

Troubled and incredibly sad in spirit, I turned to my wife and children and told them to take a long look in order to remember this place, because as swiftly as these storm clouds had gathered over the city, so too would be its destruction one day – possibly soon. I carried the heaviness of that moment with me through the remainder of our trip. It still hasn’t lifted.

While praying about what message I should bring to you in this Summer 2012 article, the Lord prompted me to deal with the topic of America’s future and what we can expect if our nation does not repent and turn back to Him soon. In 2010, I wrote a piece called “America’s Final Hour?!” which tackled this very subject. I believe the Lord would have me share this same message with you again now, as the time of crisis is approaching. I have made a few changes and additions to reflect new developments. Please take this message to heart and prayerfully consider what God would have you do.

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On January 12th (2010), I woke up in the early hours of the morning with a heaviness over an important decision I needed to make and had been praying about for almost a week. Realizing I wouldn’t be able to go back to sleep I finally got up and went downstairs to our family room. There I felt led to get on my knees beside the chair where I normally sit. For a period of time I cried out to God, seeking his direction over my decision which also involved the future of our country. After awhile I experienced God’s peace. Believing He had heard my prayer, I returned to bed and was able to sleep for a few more hours.

Later on, after getting up for the day, my mind was drawn to Revelation chapters 17 and 18 which discuss the identity of Babylon the Great and how this end-times superpower would come to ruin. No matter what projects I tried to work on, my mind kept returning to these passages. That afternoon a friend of mine, who was one of several individuals that had been praying with me about my decision, called to let me know what had happened to them earlier in the day. That morning they had awakened to a vision-like dream. In this dream they saw large clusters of houses peacefully perched along America’s coastline. Suddenly, a huge tidal wave (apparently symbolic) came out of nowhere and swept these homes far out to sea. In the wake of this massive destruction, voices were heard in the background urgently and repeatedly calling, “Warn the people, speak the truth, do not hold back, time is short!” My friend hoped that this dream might mean something to me and would help me make my decision.

Less than two hours later, Haiti was ravaged by a 7.0 earthquake. Soon afterwards scenes of utter devastation began to flow in to CNN and other news services. As I watched the unfolding coverage during the early moments of that terrible crisis, it was as if God spoke to my heart, “This same devastation will soon come to America!”

Ever since the 1980s, when I was researching and writing En Route to Global Occupation, I have believed that the city described in Revelation 17 and 18 is a direct reference to New York. In fact, in 1991 while preparing the final draft of my manuscript, I included a section in chapter 5 that revealed this conclusion and my reasons for it. However, those pages, along with a number of others scattered throughout my manuscript, were deleted by the publisher – who claimed they needed to shorten the book to make it more marketable. So, I had to be content with leaving mere hints of my belief strategically placed in the book.

Since then, a growing number of Bible scholars have come to similar conclusions. Included among them is Christian attorney John Price, whose book The End of America focuses on our nation’s demise as foretold in Scripture. (His book is available at our website, www.garykah.org, under the Bible Prophecy section of the Products tab.)

However, many well-intentioned Christian writers, wanting to believe that Babylon the Great is a reference to something other than New York City or the greater United States, have presented their cases as well. Some of them contend that the power described in Revelation 17 and 18 as Babylon the Great – more commonly referred to as “Mystery Babylon” – is actually Iraq. Since ancient Babylon was located in the area of modern-day Iraq, they argue that Mystery Babylon represents a revived Babylonian superpower to be centered in that country in the last days. The problem with this theory is that under the best of circumstances it would take at least one full generation for Iraq to become the type of economic superpower described in these passages. I do not believe we have that much time, nor is it realistic to assume that Iraq is capable of ascending to such heights so quickly.

Other students of Bible prophecy have held that Mystery Babylon is a reference to Rome. This has been the more historical position and holds some merit. However, I am convinced that Rome (and the Catholic Church) will be a major power-base for the Antichrist and will provide much of the structure necessary for his global domination. If Mystery Babylon is destroyed by “the Beast” as Scripture indicates, and if we were to assume this prophecy refers to the destruction of Rome, it would be very difficult for the Beast (Antichrist) to maintain his rule afterwards – especially over the world’s billion-plus Catholics. It would not seem to be in his best interest to destroy Rome, but rather to use the Catholic hierarchy to help him rule the world.

Mystery Babylon

There are a number of reasons for believing that New York – and the superpower it represents – is actually “the great city” referred to as Babylon the Great (Mystery Babylon) in Revelation. However, before continuing, please go to your Bible and read Revelation 17 and 18. This will help you correlate the information in these biblical prophecies with the following insights.

●The city described in these passages represents the greatest economic superpower to have ever existed. New York, the hub for America’s commerce and global trade currently does the highest volume of business of any city in the world. The entire world comes to New York to buy and sell. Businessmen from all nations have become incredibly wealthy through America’s immense purchasing power. If America goes down it would indisputably affect the global economy more than the demise of any other nation and would line up with Revelation 18:6 which states that the merchants of the earth had grown rich from her excessive luxuries; and verse 11 that indicates the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her ruin because she can no longer buy their products. Although another greater economic superpower could possibly still emerge, if this prophecy is to be fulfilled within the near future it has to be referring to New York and the United States. No other power currently fits the description.

●It is also clear from these chapters that the kings (political leaders) of the earth have a special relationship with this great city (17:2 & 18:3); so much so that when they witness her destruction, they weep and mourn over her ruin and are terrified at her torment (18:9-10). Chapter 17, verse 18 reveals that she is “the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” The kings of the earth regularly convene at the United Nations in New York City to make decisions affecting the entire globe. For the time being, the UN is the seat of power for world government; it is attempting to enforce its rule over the seven continents.

●Chapter 18, verse 7 describes this great city and earthly power as being extremely rich and guilty of indulging herself in luxury and self-praise. She is boastful and proud and sees herself as the queen of the world. The fact is the United States regularly boasts that she is the world’s only remaining superpower. Our politicians are quick to call America the greatest nation on earth, possessing the strongest military and the most powerful economy on the planet. While God has ordained our nation to exist and expects us to appreciate its freedoms and privileges, have we ever stopped to think how He must view our constant boasting? God has historically opposed the proud. We, as a nation, have sadly lost the concept of humility before God and man.

●One of the things I discovered while doing research for my book in the 1980s was that our national symbol, the Statue of Liberty, represents the ancient Babylonian goddess of love and fertility named Ishtar. Ishtar is known as the Mother of Harlots because prostitution was first introduced as a religious practice through her temple worship. The goddess Ishtar was worshipped under the name Astarte by the Phoenicians, Canaanites, Aramaeans, South Arabs, and the Egyptians to whom she was also known as Isis. Some Old Testament stories call her Ashtoreth – King Solomon built an altar in her honor which was later destroyed by King Josiah. The Greeks referred to Ishtar as Aphrodite and the Romans knew her as Venus. She was also known in Latin as Libertas from which we derive “liberty.” *

The statue, which is therefore really an idol, was given to America’s Freemasons as a gift from the Freemasons of France – a little known fact of history. Freemasons, by their own admission, trace their origins through the ancient mystery religions to Babylon where organized occult religion began. The Bible frequently refers to mighty empires using symbols. The superpower referred to in Revelation 17 and 18 is symbolically described, among other things, as a woman with some type of Babylonian connection. I believe the Statue of Liberty, as our national symbol, embodies this description.

*(Libertas was referred to by Cicero, the famous Roman historian and senator, as the Mother of Harlots. The concept of “liberty” in ancient times was associated with personal and sexual freedom and with temple prostitution. Addressing this subject, historian Richard A. Coombes writes:

Harlots had been deemed to be social outcasts so she was also referred to as the Mother of Exiles. This was later equated with the idea of immigration. Naturally then Ishtar (a.k.a. – Libertas) was known as the Mother of Harlots, the Mother of Exiles and the Mother of Immigrants throughout not only Babylon and Babylonia but also later Assyria, Egypt, Greece and Rome.

Other interesting facts: According to Coombes, “Ishtar in the most ancient of times was also referred to by the Sumerian dialect as Inanna or Ninanna, meaning the Queen of Heaven or Lady of Heaven.” The same title was given to Isis of Egypt and later to Mother Mary of Roman Catholicism. On a different but related note, some modern-day historians believe the Statue of Liberty was actually erected in honor of Semiramis, a legendary Babylonian queen known for her beauty and sexual excesses who gained goddess-like status during the 9th century B.C.  Coombes, however, vigorously refutes this claim in his extensive writings on the subject. In either case, the statue’s roots are indelibly linked to ancient Babylon.)1

●In the book of Daniel, chapters 7, 8, and 11:2-4, God provides a history of the world’s empires as they relate to Babylon. The Medes and Persians, as well as the Greeks and Romans, would all take their turns conquering Babylon. I believe the apostle John, when penning the book of Revelation, picked up where the prophet Daniel left off – describing the geographical superpower that would conquer and be in control of Babylon (Iraq and vicinity) in the end times, identifying her as “Mystery: Babylon the Great.” This, I believe, is a reference to the United States – birthed by the European countries that were a remnant of the Roman Empire to become the world’s dominant military, political, economic, and cultural force of these last days. (By the way, the ancient empires mentioned in the Bible as having conquered Babylon all had something in common: They were eventually destroyed or conquered by other powers.)

The “mystery” implies that there would be some kind of unique relationship between this end- times superpower and Babylon. The fact that America’s national symbol is Babylonian and was erected by a group (Freemasonry) with Babylonian origins which has risen to become the single most powerful influence in our nation’s politics – when coupled with the fact that the United States has in recent years had a strong military presence and been the dominant occupying power in Iraq and much of the Middle East – makes a valid case for America being Mystery Babylon.

There are other factors to consider as well. The speed of America’s moral decline is unprecedented in history. Those of us who grew up in the 50s and 60s find it difficult to believe we are living in the same country. America was once a choice vessel in God’s hands with more than half of the world’s Christian missionaries going out from the United States. We were a predominantly Christian nation.

Today we live in a post-Christian, interfaith era where the politically-correct norm embraces all religions as pathways to God. We have polluted and prostituted ourselves with other religions and gods.

On the positive side, our country still shows compassion and is quick to come to the aid of the downtrodden, especially in response to natural disasters. There is also still a significant remnant of devoted Christians in our land, whose acts of kindness and obedience are a constant testimony for Christ among unbelievers. Perhaps God has patiently protected America and been merciful to her for these reasons. Yet, at the same time, America has increasingly become a stronghold of greed, corruption and sexual depravity. No one can deny that our culture has become openly and vividly sex-crazed – promoting every sort of pornographic and immoral indulgence imaginable and spreading it to the rest of the world through our motion pictures and the Internet. Is it too brazen to say that the world has committed adultery with the United States?

We haven’t yet considered the fact that over 60 million American babies have been slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs, while the lives of certain unborn animal species are protected under our laws. And what about our nation’s on-going betrayal of Israel, intensifying under the current Obama Administration?

These are just a few of my reasons for believing that America is Mystery Babylon and will be severely judged by God. It is almost unthinkable that the world’s most influential superpower would not be mentioned somewhere in the Bible’s end-times prophecies. I believe America has been in Scripture all along; we simply haven’t wanted to accept the fact that these passages are referring to our beloved country!

Interestingly, during the last ten years or so, as I have stayed in the homes of other researchers and students of the Word while traveling and speaking, I have noticed a dramatic increase in the number of those believing America to be Mystery Babylon. I estimate this figure now to be between 60 and 70 percent of those in our circles who have shared their views with me. Some of these Christians have asked me what I think about Mystery Babylon. When I cautiously share my belief they typically respond with a sigh of relief that they are not alone in arriving at the same conclusion.

The only prophecy describing America in Revelation 17 and 18 that possibly has not yet been fully realized is the one concerning the woman being “drunk with the blood of the saints” (Rev. 17:6 & 18:24). But given today’s growing anti-Christian climate, it is not too difficult to imagine how one day soon this prophecy could be fulfilled. Christians (and Jews) are increasingly becoming targets for persecution. One can see the handwriting on the wall.

America is prophetically significant for still another reason. Like ancient Babylon (which took the Jews captive from the Promised Land), it has become the center for the world’s Jewish population. Approximately one out of every three Jews in the world currently live here – over 6 million in all. More Jews live in New York than in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined. Strangely, the United States is the only country with a large Jewish population that has not yet witnessed a major outflux of Jews making Aliyah to Israel. I believe that a great number of these Jews will soon return to Israel in a historic mass exodus, made under difficult circumstances.

It is worth noting that although still relatively small, the number of Jews leaving the United States has increased over the last few years and the momentum is building. Last year, for the first time, more Jews left the US to live in Israel than who left Israel to come to the United States. This is a prophetic sign of the times. More than 50 passages of Scripture foretell the return of God’s covenant people to their homeland in the last days– from all the earth (that includes America).

When and How

When discussing this subject with other Christians I am often asked when I think these prophecies will be fulfilled and what scenario might lead to their fulfillment. I wish I could answer these questions; but only God knows the timing of these prophecies. While extreme natural disasters and “earth-shaking” events will continue to occur in the days ahead as warnings to draw our nation back to God, Revelation 17:16 indicates that the final destruction of Mystery Babylon will come by fire and will not be the result of a natural disaster; and verse 10 of chapter 18 states that this great city’s doom will take place in one hour. This information eliminates many possibilities while offering some clues.

As I have sought to understand how so much devastation could happen so quickly through fire, the following scenario has come to mind:

A strong minority of citizens – weary over government manipulation of our crumbling economy, and having grown tired of the government’s ever-increasing usurpation of our constitutional freedoms through its expansion of power and taxes – may rise up and take to the streets. The growing Tea Party movement could be the beginning of what might eventually lead to an all-out protest/rebellion. (Pressure created by the socialistic Occupy movement – along with economic upheaval, acts of terror, and mounting racial tensions – could all be used by globalists to fan the flames of unrest, ultimately leading to conflict.) If major unrest and turbulence occur I believe the Federal Government, through its Department of Homeland Security and related agencies, would see this as their opportunity to crack down on America’s freedom-loving people, which would include a significant number of Bible-believing Christians and conservative Jews. At this point, our nation would be in the midst of its worst internal crisis since the Civil War. The persecution of Jews and Christians would be severe.

If ever our foreign enemies (Russian, Islamic, and other) were to move against the United States, this time of civil unrest and vulnerability would be their perfect opportunity. The final straw for Russia and radical Islam came when American troops went into Iraq and Afghanistan; they have sought to bring the US down ever since. Along with concern over potential Islamic acts of terror, some in our military are disturbed by the fact that Russian submarines have been regularly spotted along our coasts during the last few years. Are they staking out positions for a possible future attack?

Russia resents America’s status as the world’s only superpower. It has long wanted to be the world’s dominant force; but the United States has stood in the way. If the US could be eliminated as a superpower, Russia, in its thinking, would inevitably become Europe’s dominant military force and, as such, would be in the driver’s seat of a world government centered in Europe and the Middle East. It is no coincidence that Europe’s top globalists and many Islamic despots of terror also happen to be devoted Marxists with ties to Russia.

“Illuminists” (secret society globalists with occult loyalties) have used the United States as an effective vehicle for building their new world order – for developing technological infrastructure such as communication satellites and the Internet, promoting a syncretic global culture, and funding the UN and its various one-world agendas. But once all the pieces have been put in place, if the US itself does not come into their global system peacefully, to them it will be expendable. America, although helpful to their goals on the one hand, has been a thorn in their side on the other. They hate the US for numerous reasons, including the fact that many of its independent-minded citizens have stubbornly resisted globalization and socialism in favor of national sovereignty and free enterprise. Barack Obama and his administration represent what may be their final attempt to bring our country into their new order – by force if necessary.

I envision a time when Russia and its allies – possibly augmented by embedded terror cells – launch a nuclear attack, striking a number of our coastal cities including New York. These population centers would be devastated by fire in one hour, in fulfillment of Scripture. Regardless of how this predicted destruction comes about, Scripture makes clear that although the woman is destroyed by the Beast and his allies (Rev. 17:16), this act comes as a judgment from God (Rev. 17:17; 18:5, 8, 20; and 19:2). Chapter 18, verse 8 declares, “Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.”

From these passages it is evident that God will restrain the Beast who hates the woman until the woman’s sin has reached its full measure, at which time God will lift His hand of protection, allowing the Beast to succeed.

God is very patient, but He is also righteous and holy. As with the Israelites of old, He warns a people repeatedly, giving them time to repent of their sins; but if they persist in ignoring His merciful pleas, judgment eventually comes. When it does, it is usually swift and at a time when it is not expected.

Whether the passages in Revelation denote the complete destruction of an entire nation, symbolically represented by its most powerful city, or if they are speaking of a judgment limited to one city or a group of cities, is not specifically known. My personal opinion is that God will bring His judgment against the worst offenders – those cities that were most responsible for leading the people into sin. This was the case with Sodom and Gomorrah. He did not judge the entire region, only those cities of the plain that were responsible. Even in this instance, He left a place of refuge – the small town of Zoar – for Lot and his family (Genesis 19).

Regardless of what areas are eventually brought to ruin, one thing is certain: Since this coming destruction is the result of God’s judgment, only those places that God allows to be targeted will be hit. I hope, and want to believe, this means that major parts of our country will be spared. But, even if this were to be the case, there would still be many unknowns. Such as, what would become of those areas that are not destroyed?

Clearly, life in this country would be drastically different after such an act of judgment. Would the remaining parts of the United States eventually be brought under the authority of the Beast and his foreign troops on our soil; or would God in His mercy allow these areas to be places of refuge during the reign of the Beast – until Jesus Christ returns? Only the Lord knows the complete answer to these questions.

Read the rest HERE.

Comment by Vic:

Friends, I believe the Lord has warned us for a long time now about the New York / Babylon connection. It started with David Wilkerson in 1973 who had a vision of New York burning and the warnings are getting more and more as we are speeding towards the final years of this age. I take this warning very seriously.

Maranata!

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146 thoughts on “Final warning?

  1. Mystery Babylon = Catholic Church = Church ( both Protestant / Catholic ) same doctorine ….Replacment Theology, Virgin Birth, Trinity….

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  2. Very very good analysis! I have long feared the same thing.

    Another ominous note:

    ” And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 17 For God has put it in their hearts to execute His [i]purpose [j]by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. ” Revelation 17: 16-17

    I guess we can kiss our European allies goodbye after the WEU and EU betray us.

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  3. I have wanted to buy into this interpretation for a while but I still have trouble with narrowing the focus of who the harlot of Babylon is or Mystery Babylon is to one city. I don’t disagree with the connections to pagan ancient Babylonian idolatry – but those can be found all over the world so it’s hard for me to use them to narrow the focus to one city.

    I guess my objection here is that I would be interpreting prophecy with something I WANT to be true. No I don’t hate New York – I have friends there that I hope would get out I don’t want it to be destroyed. We’ve seen though that New York when it comes to Islamic terrorism is a favorite target. The first world trade center bombing happened in ’93 and almost took the towers down the – the second succeeded in ’01. I don’t think the evil men who hate the economic prosperity that the US has represented are done attacking New York. With that said, do I think Gary is wrong – well not entirely but it troubles me how his “vision” of New York destroyed gains acceptance because it agrees with what many actually think. Why not say – We know God hates evil, We see great evil in this land, therefore this land is inviting God’s judgment. I don’t see a need to take the next step and try to read into scripture a personal identity for Babylon the great. The danger is that we may miss the broader meaning of the text which condemns all man-made religion to destruction, which condemns all of man depending on himself for wealth, prosperity and happiness to be burned up in the fire.

    Has America turned from God- absolutely

    Is America under God’s judgment? the futile thinking that is so common here makes that quite clear, America rejected God and so God’s glory has departed

    Will New York be destroyed? If Iran has a nuclear weapon or if North Korea or another nuclear nation run by people that hate what the US represents, it’s the most likely target with the second most likely being Washington. So if I were a betting man, I’d say probably yes, it’s a matter of time.

    Will the US survive the destruction of one or more cities? In its present form, probably not.

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  4. Jason,
    you say….
    “Mystery Babylon = Catholic Church = Church ( both Protestant / Catholic ) same doctorine ….Replacment Theology, Virgin Birth, Trinity….”

    Do you know much at all about Church history?

    Without Googling for info….be honest now…..God knows what we do……do you know anything about Athanasius, and what he did in defense of the truth?

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  5. Yes I know quite a lot about Church History and work has a translater with many Good Christian university’s working on Greek and Hebrew text. What would you like to know anything in particular. I would be more than happy to discuss this topic with you privately or on this thread.

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  6. Yes, Jason,
    What you know of Athanasius would be a good start…..as I said…what you know of him presently, without any further research.

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  7. And Jason,
    Which “Good Christian universities” are they that support your Anti Protestant Doctrine, do you work as a Translator for?

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  8. As you put the question to me do I know anything about Church History ?

    I will start with asking you some basic questions. Can you tell me what the oldest manuscripts we have associated with the NT are dated at ,its dates and authors, in particular what references are there to the Trinity or the Virgin birth story’s.

    What were the followers of Yoshua ( Iesoues / Jesus called …. and there beliefs about GOD.

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  9. Let me make something very clear I am not anti Protestant or Catholic but how can both groups judge each other when they believe in the same core doctrine..

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  10. And Jason,

    this part of your first response…….

    ” and work has a translater with many Good Christian university’s working on Greek and Hebrew text. What would you like to know anything in particular”

    was added to assure me of how intelligent you are…….rather than answering simply that you have a decent or very good understanding of church history.

    It’s one of the reasons I’ve asked you about Athanasius in particular.

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  11. Jason,

    you’ve asked……

    “Let me make something very clear I am not anti Protestant or Catholic but how can both groups judge each other when they believe in the same core doctrine..

    Answer,
    Because Some of the Core Doctrine you’re referencing is truth.

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  12. It’s interesting to me, i’m not a particularly good speller at all…………but as a “Translator”, I would not expect someone as you’ve said you are, and Working As Such, would spell that would “TranslatER”, as you did.

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  13. Jason asked….
    “I will start with asking you some basic questions. Can you tell me what the oldest manuscripts we have associated with the NT are dated at ,its dates and authors, in particular what references are there to the Trinity or the Virgin birth story’s.”

    I’m not aware of the exact dates, but most of the extant manuscripts have come to us in Latin that are of the ancient church in the first few centuries, not sure how many remain in Greek other than in fragments.

    The earliest authors would authors would be probably Irenaeus, Justin martyr, Hermas….there’s more of course, but listing those that come to mind immediately.

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  14. Jason – I am concerned that your comments above and trolling for a fight with Christians is a reflection of earlier doctrinal errors you have made – rejecting the trinity, rejecting the virgin birth, rejecting the deity of Jesus Christ. Those arguments will not be entertained publicly here. Your denials are based on false information about ancient manuscripts, and a rejection of the writings of the apostles as the inspired word of God. If you continue in this your comments will deleted.

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  15. Jason asked…..
    “What were the followers of Yoshua ( Iesoues / Jesus called ”

    They were called many, Many things…….among them selves they were first called Disciples, Believers, Saints, elect, bretheren. they were also called Jesseans, a reference either to Jesse, the father of David or to the earliest form of the Name Jesus.
    They were also called Theraputaes, as a translator you would know that name is similar in meaning such as “Worshippers of the True God”.

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  16. Sorry your point about Athanasius ? This is my point his arguments are classic rebuilding of theology I am raising he argued with his counterparts about the Trinity as there is no biblical teaching on this in the Tanakh . In fact the early church had so many different opinion about the nature of the Son of Man and his relationship to God. Look at the some of the first followers pre Trinity doctrine era. Ebonites, Montanists, Novationists, Donatists, Paulicians, Albigenses, Waldenses, Anabaptists, All had different beliefs about Yoshua / Jesus. Some believed he came to earth as a fully grown man . There was no Trinity belief this was invented by the Later Church.

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  17. Please don’t do it just yet justasheep,
    his errors are only advanced by those who Think they Understand Truth…….Jason, the Eusebian/Arian, should be exposed as the wolf he is.

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  18. Just as before I will be blocked by the author because I challenge your false claims with facts I have no problem with True Christians God bless you all

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  19. I am not a believer in any faith just deal with facts just a sheep … So If you want to have an open discussion do it as you are showing the in capability to seek truth and only view your point Church theology not biblical ….

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  20. Ok just to Clarify I have no problem with Protestants NONE .. There are good Protestants and good Catholics, There are good Buddhists.. I am simply making a point that not all is what it seems. From a language and Biblical History point of view There is no support for certain claims made through the Church… I am not on my own with this read some of the books out there by biblical scholars like Dr Ron Moseley, Professor Blizzard Dr David Stern Dr Michael Brown, Very loving Devout Christians who all state the same opinions . Why if people claim they serve God do they have such a problem with this its weird…. Surely they would want to know more about the person they call there Messiah.

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  21. Jason,

    your statement….

    “Sorry your point about Athanasius ? This is my point his arguments are classic rebuilding of theology I am raising he argued with his counterparts about the Trinity as there is no biblical teaching on this in the Tanakh .”

    You are clearly as blind and as pitifully in error as Eusebius and Athanasius themselves.

    I’m certain Athanasius understood the “Tanakh” much better than you could ever hope to imagine since he had the ENTIRE Old testament (Tanakh) and New Testament, Memorized, that’s right, Memorized from cover to cover by the age of thirty as I recall.

    He understood the scriptures…….. clearly you Arians are still attempting to stand up against truth….but your lies and ignorance will not prevail Against the Truth that is in our God and Savior “JESUS CHRIST”………the “ALMIGHTY”.

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  22. my typo……………….error…………I said Eusebius and Athanasius…..obviously I meant to type…..Eusebius and Arius.

    Athanasius was typed in error

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  23. Yes I agree you are correct the Eusebian views are just as mad as Marion or Tetullian to name but a view complete contradictions of Biblical writting. Just as Justin Martyr or later Luther writtings. Look what happened when the Jewish people rejected luthers views he sent letters of the most vile putred hatred encouraging Violence, Burning, Theft, despicable acts of cruelty but the church believes he was a good man. How…. We’re was the Holy Spirit then certainly not in him if a Muslim did this we would say its Satanic but it appears a different set of rules for the church Madness…….

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  24. Thank-you for this powerful post Vic. Even though he holds to the pre trib view I fully agree! Not that NYC is the target centre but it would bring AmeriKa to her knees yes. By then it would be too late for any ” repentance ” anyways right!
    The Holy Spirit bearing witness to this the first week I arrived in N. America, yet at first not understanding why the Lord showed me this {Jer 50 and 51 } but understand now.

    Gary said –
    “One of the things I discovered while doing research for my book in the 1980s was that our national symbol, the Statue of Liberty, represents the ancient Babylonian goddess of love and fertility named Ishtar. Ishtar is known as the Mother of Harlots because prostitution was first introduced as a religious practice through her temple worship.”

    I loved how he pointed out the idolatry of another “jesus” and the religious sexual practice of ancient Babylon.This worship of Ishtar’s “son” is the “another jesus, another gospel and another spirit” that Paul warns about yet he is WORSHIPED on every Dec the 25th!

    Hedonism is alive and well in the church { building, and fellowships } and has become the breeding ground for the predator’s that lie in wait to seduce and deceive God’s own.

    He said.
    “I envision a time when Russia and its allies – possibly augmented by embedded terror cells – launch a nuclear attack, striking a number of our coastal cities including New York. These population centers would be devastated by fire in one hour, in fulfillment of Scripture. ”

    The saddest thing for me is the real concern that he { as all pre- tribbers do } believe they will not be here to here to witness this ” destroying wind ” which seems closer now then ever. All I can think of lately is Isaiah 47.

    Isa 47:3 — Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

    There is a strange ” quietness”in the air and wondered if anybody else noticed that too? It’s a eerie silence and as Mr Sheep noted, the GLORY of the Lord hath departed. ICHABOD!

    There seems to be a upsurge upsurge of “deceived and BEING” deceived!

    Isa 66:4 — I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

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  25. Sorry for hasty post { as always } not enough time to proof read 🙂
    Or is it that double Frappe this morning that has me bouncing off the walls again!heehee

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  26. david meyers had a vision of 911 approx. 2 months before it occured. he put it in his july newsletter , or was it his august newsletter, and in sept., it happened! yes, his vision has been critiqued but thats ok. he is of; Last Trumpet ministries btw. /// humm, what else was on my mind as i read this post, which i was kinda surprised to see here on this site,… well as far as the ,”drunk w/ the blood of the saints” goes, well pastor Randy Shupe, of Arvada, Colorado points out that, America is Rome!, so they don’t have to out do rome in the slaughter business. This is something else, this subject matter,wow! i listened to an interview/ video with Deborah Tavares,..she spoke out on things, connecting the dots in a stunning way!,…smart grid, agenda 21, depopulation plan. The man interviewing actually let her speak! Then i also listened to Dr. Bill Deagle as he interviewed her, and he didn’t allow her to say much because he couldn’t stop talking himself; however, he had some astounding things rolling off of his tongue, conspiratorial in nature. Dr. Deagle kept taking it back to ScRiPtUrE, which i really appreciated. Bottom line is,…they plan on killing us off,…listen to Deborah talk about, and read out loud, NASA’S documents

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  27. Hi your attack on me as I speak Hebrew is rather silly firstly none of the Church fathers used the Tanakh they used the Greek translation which has around 10 000 errors in it due to the translation incidentally only the Torah 5 x books was translated into Greek and not the writings of the prophets That was a process of around 300 years. and no body knows who the translators were Athanasius did not read Hebrew read his own writings don’t take my word for it. In fact read some of the early works of the church fathers the are numerous comments on the fact there were Hebrew originals that nobody could read or are you saying the church fathers were lying.

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  28. Short tribber please answer my earlier questions please …

    Second point So do you believe the NT is the word of GOD and of course GOD would not make mistakes would he so there are no mistakes in the NT. is this statement true.

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  29. Short Tribber

    You attack me and mock me as my English is not great spelling it is not my first language This shows what darkness operates in your heart. What a fine Christian example you are setting Now answer my questions and stop trying to attack me on a personal level.

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  30. Jason, will you please wait until Shorttribber responds. I can promise you that we are only tolerating your trolling because he asked to debate you and not because your attack on the Bible and the Lordship of Jesus Christ is welcome. Thank you.

    While we wait for Shorttribber, comments about the original post is welcome.

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  31. I hope I didn’t sound to critical before – I didn’t mean to be tearing down what Mr. Kah wrote about New York/US as moving toward a fulfillment of Revelation 17-18. I’m just not sure that I’d be ready to pin the tail on that donkey at this point, for fear of missing the larger fulfillment that’s coming assuming the facts on the ground change significantly when the antichrist emerges.

    On the topic of teaching about the coming of Christ, I am being greatly blessed this week listening to a series on the coming of Christ by John MacArthur. I know he has a preference for the pretrib interpretation too – but his focus in the teaching is not to promote that view but to focus us on the real issue which is our coming savior and the signs of his coming. If you can overlook some very sparse and brief references to a pretribulation rapture I think you’d be blessed by it too. http://www.gty.org/resources/sermon-series/252

    Regarding the other conversation that’s popped up in this thread. I’m not likely to entertain a promotion of “hebrew roots” movement theology on this site. It is unbiblical and not different from the heresies the the apostles encountered among the judaizers of the first century – it’s nothing new and it’s still error. Above I see cited a number of hebrew roots thinkers – I have to admit I don’t know them well other than they are soundly rejected by every trustworthy bible teacher I have yet encountered. If our understanding of Judaism is so wrong, and our understanding of the old testament is so wrong – then how do you explain the very thoughtful and thoroughly Jewish thinking of a man like Dr. Michael Rydelnik, raised an orthodox jew, came to Christ as a young man reading the words written down by Moses and the Prophets. He does not reject the trinity, the virgin birth or any of the new testament scriptures- and demonstrates their harmony with the Old Testament, which is why he is one of my favorite bible teachers.

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  32. Jason,

    you said,
    “Hi your attack on me as I speak Hebrew is rather silly firstly none of the Church fathers used the Tanakh they used the Greek translation which has around 10 000 errors in it due to the translation incidentally only the Torah 5 x books was translated into Greek and not the writings of the prophets That was a process of around 300 years. and no body knows who the translators were Athanasius did not read Hebrew read his own writings don’t take my word for it. In fact read some of the early works of the church fathers the are numerous comments on the fact there were Hebrew originals that nobody could read or are you saying the church fathers were lying.”

    The word “Tanakh” I used was only to Indicate, Old Testament….I am aware the ancients used the Greek translation.
    It’s true that many of the ancients, including Athanasius, did not read Hebrew……..Are you comfortable enough to agree that the Masoretic text is accurate enough to glean the truth as to Christ’s Divinity?
    Do you think God demands of all the saints to Learn Hebrew before we can be lead into all truth by His Spirit?
    You, I would imagine then, do not receive the Epistles of Paul as God Breathed Truth, am I correct in making that assumption or not?

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  33. Hi Vic

    Thank you for your message so I am clear enough for all I am not attacking the Bible I merely point out the differences between the bible translation in the Greek and Hebrew as anyone with a basic knowledge of Hebrew and Greek.

    I merely point out that the church is responsible for great Acts of wickedness in the past and Replacement theology has crept in I do not know of any Biblical scholar that would disagree with this comment. What is wrong with that… Why should a so called Christian mock me and attack me … This is example is dark character .

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  34. looks like we were posting at the same time Colleen, and you hit the submit button before me,…careful w/ them frappes ,……..you make me smile! /////// Also on all of this talk concerning Gary Kah’s words,……..i mean imo, whats worse is not exactly WHERE babylon sits, but WHAT IT IS; and that is ultimately needs to be dealt with in our innermost spirit. I’m sure that has been said before by others. ///// p.s., i like the new icon His Own!, but miss the old one.,…..Blessens’

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  35. Jason,

    you asked…

    “Second point So do you believe the NT is the word of GOD and of course GOD would not make mistakes would he so there are no mistakes in the NT. is this statement true.”

    Transcription or copying errors there are…..doctrinal errors there Are Not.

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  36. whoops”, and that is WHAT ultimately needs to be dealt with”,……too many frapps for me!! Its the WHAT,WHAT thing, What needs to be most fully REALIZED is just WHAT babylon i!. A friend of mine once said,[ Real eyes, Realize, Real lies.] Kinda cool play on words,…its that Deception that is Babylon, and its all around,….ie., money-greed/MAMMON, etc,….= mark of the Beast[buying n selling, commerce,….as in eating food/groceries….flesh’s demands]. I’ll stop, i see i’m getting carried away. Carry on…………………………………..COLLEEN!!!!!!!/ your new icon ROCKS!, and it stones me, to my soul!, in GODS WAY! In His Direction!

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  37. Jason,

    you said….

    “I merely point out that the church is responsible for great Acts of wickedness in the past and Replacement theology has crept in I do not know of any Biblical scholar that would disagree with this comment. What is wrong with that… Why should a so called Christian mock me and attack me … This is example is dark character .”

    Are you aware of the wickedness of the Eusebians/Arians against the Faithfull in Christ for nearly 70 years?

    For some reason I doubt that you are aware of it………………and look at history Only through your Arian Tinted (Tainted) Glasses.

    My Character is of the Light and Walks in the Light……and contends Only Against the Spirit of Antichrist…………….and that spirit of Antichrist is the same Spirit that we are told by Paul to Contend Against.

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  38. No Vic thats not exactly it, but if you hit the link to Last trumpet ministries and make way to his newsletter of either[ August, i believe],or possibly july, you will see his write up of his july, 2001 vision of the towers coming down and the resulting devastation. we all have to make of it what we will. It crossed my mind as i read your gary kah post. Bless You and this wonderful website Vic. and now to go back and examine the before its news, link that you brought forth, looked like more interesting info.

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  39. Hi Short Tribber

    Ok I like these questions in Answer the Leningrad Codex which you mention is a rewrite of an older text but yes a good source the problem is there are many scribal errors between this and the Sepugint many in fact a common one you will be aware of is an obvious one the text known as Nevi’im your Bible will say Isaiah 7:14 In the Hebrew Text this is written to Ahaz as most of this section is as war is brewing he prophet speaks and tells him to ask he states I will not test The Lord as The Lord says ask for a sign ect..ect.. The prophet tells him The Lord will give you a sign on his own accord. Look the young woman ( Alma in Hebrew meaning young woman ) Not the Hebrew word Bethula which can only be Virgin. A young woman will give birth to a child being called Immanuel. Here is his sign that God is among them. This is the Greek says a virgin will give birth which is not what the writting states. This was then later given as a prophecy of Jesus virgin birth. Which is crazy why would God give a proohecy that God is with them in this difficult time if actually it was a mistranslation in there own language and refered to an event in 700 years time. It would have been no benefit to the receiver of the prophecy it was given to.

    This is a basic example of mistranslation and replacment theories it is also important that the first followers who of Yoshua / Jesus were all practising Jews and remained until the take over of the Roman replment church none of them believed in a virgin birth. The Gospel of Mattisyahu was known by most biblical scholars to be altered around 250AD which is why the Ebionites rejected the NT apart from Mark and Mattisyahu in the older text which incidental was recently discoverd from Shem Tova’s Hebrew Matthew.

    On Paul were do you begin either Paul was Mad, a liar, or there was altered documents. Firstly Paul loves the Torah then rejects it even though this would be against the teachings in Mattisyahu spoke. By Jesus who came to establish Torah observance see the Greek text… Problem two Paul seems to translate from Greek which is mistranslated from Hebrew so the author of Paul does not seem to know any of Tanakh or be able to read Hebrew Which is weird if he was suppose to be trained in Rabbinic Judaisem finally this then seems to present a Paul whi is at odds with Jesus hence being dragged in by the Jerusalem church and asked to circumcise his follower and then take a Nazorite vow ( very Torah observant ) If he believed there was salvation in Christ only why does he not object and take a Nazorite vow which would result in marketing a sacrifice at the temple. Again Paul was either a liar, Mad, or the writtings have been altered and the real Paul has had his charachter changed which is sad. It is worth noting that the texts available to us alleged to be by Paul have many writting variants it is like comparing 17th century English to modern day street slang. The language changes dramatically.

    Do I think Christians need to learn to speak Hebrew it would help but of course not necessary if the Historical facts are studied and Christians truly understand the Jewish Yoshua / Jesus and his Pharasetic parables and stop making Silly false claims like he came to get rid of the Torah as that is not what is written and certainly not what is in the Messianic prophecys in the Tanakh in fact it is the opposite. I hope I answer your questions.

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  40. You have clearly called out the Pauline epistles as either a) written by a fraud who was not inspired by the Holy Spirit or b) corrupted at some point since they were written.

    To make such a claim, the burden is now on you to provide proof that a) the Apostles who were still alive at the time of Paul’s writing rebuked him or b) that the oldest manuscripts present widely varied text that makes none of the claims that you I’m guessing would call heretical regarding the doctrine of salvation by grace alone, the trinity or I’m sure many others.

    You will not be able to prove option a) – since the apostle Peter not only fails to rebuke Paul for teaching heresy – the scriptures show evidence that Peter is the one who repents of his endorsement of the Judaizers and rebukes them himself in Acts 11, and goes on to endorse Paul’s ministry in Act 15. Another piece of evidence that you would have to deal with is Peter’s own commendation for Paul writings – as scripture in 2 Peter 3:16.

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  41. I was going to cut off the conversation but Shorttribber asked for the opportunity to debate the issue, so even though I reject the demands of Judaizers I am going to leave it go. Since Shorty isn’t here right now I am moved to weigh in myself as well.

    I’ve heard the Alma vs Betulah argument before as the breathless claim that Isaiah could not be referring to the birth of Christ, and also could not be suggesting he was born of a virgin. I have one question about that though, since the claim doesn’t make sense to me. Alma, everywhere it is found in scriptures refers to a young woman of marriageable age who is as of yet unmarried. In the context of ancient jewish culture – would anyone, much less a prophet, have used a polite term to refer to a young woman of marriageable age who was not married – yet was NOT a virgin? The claim of such a vast distinction between the two words is just silly – if the young woman was NOT a virgin would not the prophet have referred to her in some other way as a) a married woman who was not expected to be a virgin or b) a harlot who was known not to be a virgin and expected to be stoned to death and not allowed to give birth to a child that would be know as “God with us”? It is my belief then that such a distinction did not exist in the Hebrew language at the time the Prophet inscribed characters on the page – but it emerged in jewish vocabulary in the centuries AD among the rabbiis in order strengthen their dispute of the truth of the Gospel and now it’s trotted out by doubters as a smoking gun that those us that put our trust in Christ alone and look to his atoning death and resurrection for our salvation are utter fools.

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  42. Your own comments Jason, give answer and a clear reflection of the “Madness” of your belief system…..a system without a Staff (Cannon) to measure with.

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  43. So Short Tribber you believe Paul taught to mock people and be aggressive. Strange not sure which Bible translation you get this from. As for your strange Arian remarks this defies any logic. Why would you think such things very weird I do not believe in any teachings of any denomination none at all. I believe what is historical proof. I believe what is written in the original writings of Mattisyahu the recorded words of Yoshua I believe in the early Gospel of Mark and the Q Gospel I believe in the Torah of God and the Tanakh I do not believe in the Greek translation as it is full of mistakes if you study Hebrew and Greek for two years you would see this. I reject any notion of Arianism as I reject Islamic teachings and traditional NT teachings as any one who loves GOD would. Not through personal opinions but simply as they are clearly additions to original writings which are easy to spot and are contradictions of each other This is why I reject the Trinity , the Virgin birth, and Hades, As if I believe in Hades I would have to believe in his brothers Zeus and Poseidon. Which begs the question why a Greek God would be in the BIble. The answer is it is only in the Septuagint and not the Tanakh. It is an abomination to God. Sheol does not translate into Hades. This is a Greek God we get the word Hell from how bizzare anyway. Take care and may Hashem be with you. I am leaving this thread forever as it is pointless and silly Do your own research.

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  44. “I’ve heard the Alma vs Betulah argument before as the breathless claim that Isaiah could not be referring to the birth of Christ, and also could not be suggesting he was born of a virgin. I have one question about that though, since the claim doesn’t make sense to me. Alma, everywhere it is found in scriptures refers to a young woman of marriageable age who is as of yet unmarried. In the context of ancient jewish culture – would anyone have used a polite term to refer to a young woman of marriageable age who was not married – yet was NOT a virgin? The claim of such a vast distinction between the two words is just silly – if the young woman was NOT a virgin would not the prophet have referred to her in some either way as a) a married woman who was not expected to be a virgin or b) a harlot who was known not to be a virgin and expected to be stoned to death and not allowed to give birth to a child that would be know as “God with us”? It is my belief then that such a distinction did not exist in the Hebrew language at the time the Prophet inscribed characters on the page – but it emerged in jewish vocabulary in the centuries AD among the rabbiis in order strengthen their dispute of the truth of the Gospel and now it’s trotted out by doubters as a smoking gun that those us that put our trust in Christ alone and look to his atoning death and resurrection for our salvation our utter fools.”

    Well…………….. how answer ye this Jason the Arian?

    Thanx, Justasheep, please continue with the undressing of this Wolf while I must be in my shop till midnight tonight probably.

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  45. “So Short Tribber you believe Paul taught to mock people and be aggressive. Strange not sure which Bible translation you get this from”

    The Bible that says to contend for the Faith ONCE delivered to the Saints.

    And not give place to their Nonsense….that part, I just threw in for Clarity!

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  46. ” I reject any notion of Arianism ”

    LOL!!!!!! do you even know who Arius was then!!!!!!!! Yer a Riot!!!!!

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  47. “Take care and may Hashem be with you. I am leaving this thread forever as it is pointless and silly Do your own research.”

    Good riddance ……go howl at the moon! And don’t bore us any longer with your nonsense!

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  48. Poppie Shorty this is the first time I’ve seen ye CONTEND so earnestly!
    Ye make me so proud 🙂
    I’m taking down the giants in my own life right now and will heed your wisdom tonight 🙂
    Please say a prayer for me.

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  49. Rob,

    Man, all I can say is God is truly working through you. As I read the comments on this particular thread, you have echoed what I feel in my heart. I personally am not willing to give Gary Kah a rite to passage that his theory is right. As a matter of fact I strongly disagree with him.

    As I have always said, I’m not dogmatic about what I believe at all – but I wholeheartedly believe that Mystery Babylon is not limited to one particular city; but a Final Economic Empire that will be set up by Satan, and ruled by the coming Antichrist.

    In closing…..I’m sorry to see that such an important thread has been dominated by Shorty and Jason, and their desires to prove each other wrong. Arguments never edify the Body of Christ. We here, I believe understand what is Truth – as it will certainly come out.

    Please keep up the good work!

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  50. Mr Baldy,
    My desire was not to prove him wrong, but to prove who he is……a wolf that needed to be exposed….and that’s it.

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  51. and…I believe that every time a wolf is exposed….the body of Christ is built up.
    You know I don’t nitpick any believer on various opinions and doctrine…you know that’s true.
    But I will not remain silent in the face of such Blatant Heresies……if God himself told me to be silent about it, I would, but he did not, so I was not, and will not in the future.

    Get ready to expose lies such as Jason advertises as truth……..there is a lot more that will be shouted from the rooftops to come.

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  52. Shorty, I agree with you. But Jason has introduced his heresies here before. It just my very humble opinion that when Rob recognized it, he should have nipped in in the bud at that time. I believe that out of respect for you, Wickus, and Rob both allowed this non-edifying conversation to continue.

    In an effort NOT to distract from the context of this Thread….I believe that we should concentrate our efforts on the topic that has been presented, instead of fruitlessness. Understanding Mystery Babylon is key to understanding how we interpret how End Time events will unfold – as there are many opinions out there that are and/or can help us all to our understanding.

    I only interjected, (certainly and completely understanding that it is not my place) – but only to respectfully provide my opinion on how allow this topic may lead to revelations that may unfold decent comments that may reveal or confirm Truth.

    There are many out there that are so arrogant about the American lifestyle, as to believe that as America disregards Israel – so goes our Nation. I often think and question: Just how silly is this form of thinking? How arrogant to think and totally assume that America is the lone Savior of Israel – insomuch as to believe that if we abandon her (Israel) God will send Judgment our way, and only us. Well what about the other Nations that prosper, who totally hate Israel – and that by way of Oil, economic status, and wealth? Do we question them – or if God will send His judgment on them? Or is America so special that every time a tropical storm, or semblance of an oncoming Hurricane develops off the coast of Africa – and is subsequently headed towards the Eastern Coast of America – “it is the Judgment of God” because of America’s apparent rejection of the Israeli Nation? Give me a break. Get over this very, very – what I deem to be ignorant and VERY arrogant attitude that America is so special that God has to deal with her on a personal level – but when other Nations do Israel wrong, nothing is mentioned. America is no better than any other Nation on this planet as far as what God’s dealing is with the Nation of Israel.

    Mystery Babylon is not a particular city in my very humble opinion – and it is certainly not New York.. I only pray that we have those who can think outside of the box – just for a minute – to see, and learn that we cannot limit God to our own personal understanding and opinions – and this certainly includes me. But in one’s attempt to explain Bible Prophecy, one has to view the entire World as it relates to what God has given us in Scripture.

    The coming Antichrist will be revealed in God’s time. There is an absolute purpose to this. It appears as if this lone man comes on the scene at a time of a World Wide Crisis. This appears to be at a time when the entire World will need a solution to the very problems that it faces – and what other problem can intercede World Wide other than that which deals with the Economy? This is why I believe that Mystery Babylon will be a Governmental System that has failed to come together economically, thus deceiving people and being the symbolic “Whore” that Scripture has describe her as – only to be ruled by the coming Antichrist.

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  53. Justasheep,
    I also like and enjoy John MacArthur’s teaching. I listen just about everyday to something of his because of his expository style. It’s funny, i listen to him from sermons as far back as the early 80’s and i wonder if he every goes back and listens and has decided differently on certain doctrines. One thing he said the other day caught my attention. He said in the last days the gospel would be preached to the whole world and he said that couldn’t be done yet, but would be done eventually by the angel flying over the earth’s skies proclaiming the gospel message. He obviously didn’t know that Al Gore was working on the internet and how that would change everything! I also don’t agree with his pre-trib views. Anyhow, interesting debate…over my head…

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  54. i wonder,…..what ever happened to Diane?! The BEAST governmental system, NEW WORLD ORDER- GLOBAL GOVT. will make use of “religion” for a while,…a ONE WORLD RELIGION with a new global ethic; Universalism, Solidarity, Tolerance. You know, COEXIST- as ALL paths lead to the same mountain top, to UNITE the peoples of the world through ” open-mindedness/ respect for others and their beliefs{to the point where you have to agree that they are also “true”} = tolerance redefined! THE BEAST WILL USE THIS WHORE, pardon my french, until he needs her no more. Then comes the M.O. that the BEAST uses to totally control all people after he is completely fed up with ” religious/spiritual nonsense. Its the Mark,….and its all about commerce,………eat or die. WE ALL KNOW THIS, don’t we? The U.N. will rule the 7 continents of the world that they have divided into 10 regional districts. If this isn’t exactly correct, i’ve got a feeling that its close enough. I may be altogether off in some way, i’m not a heavyweight by any means in my total understanding of scripture, and to boot, i’m looking through glass darkly!/////// Choose you this day whom you will serve; Our Heavenly Father and the narrow way, or, The Earthly minded World System which starts out along the Broadway and eventually becomes very confined as it tricks you and entraps you.

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  55. Mystery Babylon is very much a mystery to me…and I guess it will stay that way until God defines it better for all of us.

    Definition soon coming I think.

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  56. Mr Baldy,
    To comment on one last bit…….you said.
    “I believe that out of respect for you, Wickus, and Rob both allowed this non-edifying conversation to continue.”
    There are, i’m fairly sure, many youngsters in Christ that can potentially be easily blown about by the wolves that have crept in among true Christians…………building up (edifying) the Body must also include the maintenance of the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.

    If your intended meaning of, non-edifying, is more in reference to my apparent anger clearly evident in my posts……..I concede…..I was angry…………….but, I did not sin, my heart is just sickened by his blindness, and those Gnostics and Agnostics that are of the same lot.
    Making an open show of the foolishness they call Knowledge is important for those who can be too easily persuaded by their craft.

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  57. Barak is really freaking me out these days,…that eye in the capstone of the pyramid on the back of the dollar bill, looks like his eye to me. no joke. In other words……! but not to worry kids, its just me, tony, and it could be my mind playin’ tricks! So everyone, at ease. Love you guys, really, and i’m sorry fer takin’ n scarin’ the heck out of ever-one.!, but,… When you get time, take a look at that eye on yer money and the take a look at the bold one in the whitehouse, Barak Insane Obama,…the one who mocks the most high!

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  58. Tribber, when you defend the faith the way you do, you weed out the chaff,….and thats work,….honorable work.

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  59. I love how the Apostle Paul put it , or shall I say did it 🙂

    Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    1Ti 1:18 — This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

    1Ti 1:19 — Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

    Dangerous times!

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  60. I love this verse and praise God for the powerful truth therein 😉

    1Cr 11:19 — For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

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  61. Tolerance gone overboard = compromise = dilute, pollute, contaminate and destroy true TRUTH. One World Religion, Ecumenelism, U.R.I. united religious initiative, will do just this. by opening up an umbrella of “tolerance”, yielding pluralism, syncretism and ruination of the TRUTH of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Whoredom, promiscuity…………unfaithfulness, infedelity

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  62. …the beast will love this, and then destroy it as he changes [shape-shifts] into a total controlling Money loving, Power hungry, fully corrupt barbarian. Possessed with full blown HATRED for GOD and ALL that is spiritual.

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  63. …this is what i’ve gathered from it all over the years,…it will come down to commerce and somehow i left out Earth-Worship, but that will and already is being woven into the equation. I am just downloading my thoughts and opinions on this most intriguing subject, of end times and the whore of babylon. The Mystery part of it all, seems to be the fact that the BEAST itself allows it and in fact creates it,…uses it, then DESTROYS IT! //// ? is this a parallel?….God isn’t asking us to give up anything that satan isn’t going to force us to give up anyway?

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  64. Shorty wrote:

    “If your intended meaning of, non-edifying, is more in reference to my apparent anger clearly evident in my posts……..I concede…..I was angry…………….but, I did not sin, my heart is just sickened by his blindness, and those Gnostics and Agnostics that are of the same lot.
    Making an open show of the foolishness they call Knowledge is important for those who can be too easily persuaded by their craft.”

    Shorty I apologize if I came across a bit harsh….but this was certainly not my intent. As I kept reading what you and very “misinformed Jason” were going back and forth about, two passages of Scripture came to my mind:

    First: Titus 3:10 – “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.”

    And Second: 2 Timothy 2:14 – “Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.”

    Shorty, although we disagree with our End Time views on Scripture, I still hold you in very high regards as a man who loves God. I have been guilty myself in quarreling with those who send forth false messages; and I have shown great anger as well – so I am with you as far as your passion is concerned in those who spread false messages. I was not attacking your passion, or the truth that you have put forth, only the way you came across. Most young tender believers in Christ are often offended by the way those of us who are stronger in the Lord send forth our message – I had to learn this the hard way. So again, it was not my intent to strike out on what you have presented – only the way, or “delivery” in which it was conducted, as it led away from a very most important topic – as far as eschatology is concerned, and that being “Mystery Babylon”.

    In closing, dear Body of Christ……..again, I have never been dogmatic about my views, but often I cannot help but wonder how much the very false Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine theory has poisoned the minds of those of us who are truly searching for the truth. It seems as if every time we attempt to understand Bible Prophecy, that ole mind set of certain views, presented by the Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory has to be incorporated into our thinking. I have mentioned this, because it also relates to how “Mystery Babylon” has been presented as, or will be as well – which is the thinking and/or mind set that has been presented by a Pre-Tribulation Rapture platform. We have to get away from that. We have to take what is written, and apply it to what God has shown us in our hearts and minds, instead of what someone else has determined, base on
    God only knows what particular motive.

    In my very humble opinion, “Mystery Babylon” appears to be an economic system, and not limited to a city. We must remember that the Book of Revelation is “symbolic” – and in understanding this, it will also help us to relate to what John is presenting to us through Christ. I’m sorry, but I absolutely do not see two End Time players. I see an End Time Economic System of Nations that arises – created by Satan, and ONE End Time man who has been granted the authority to rule over it for 3.5 years – who will ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire, along with this Final Empire.

    I pray that we all come to understanding, as God has promised to those of us who study the Book of Revelations.

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  65. …Mr Baldy are you saying that the Beast n the Whore are one and the same? and that the False prophet n the Antichrist are one and the same as well?? and that Babylon the Great is the Beast???

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  66. Could it be that the Woman who rides the Beast[ 2 parts of 1 WHOLE SYSTEM/EMPIRE ] start out as ONE in UNITY and then diverge as the 2 develope different intrests, and in a crime of passion and maddness, a murder takes place out of jealous rage!

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  67. Why is such language being used here in Gods Holy Bible? BEAST!,…WHORE [harlot]! and is it biblical to think in terms of satans final power base / EMPIRE as being one world govt, one world religion and one world economic system?Politics and economy seem to go hand in hand like fear and anger but religion…? Does the Beast really even need that?

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  68. If, as you say, the mystery babylon is the economic system, why would the Beast devour it?,…OH, maybe i do see what your possibly getting at! Would i be right to assume that your presuming that The Beast will devour the current money system so to set up His very own, “Mark of the BEAST” 666 ECONOMY? That would make our current money system, Mystery Babylon. If this is your understanding and everyone on this site gets it but me, why then i apologize for being so slow to get the picture you are drawing. What say you?

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  69. Tony I’m not mrbaldy but you explained it the way I was taking what he was saying, if your wrong then I am misunderstanding what he is saying too..

    Updating on my family, we would really appreciate all the prayer we can get ..

    My heart is breaking for my brother Roger, he just smiles even though he is soooo sick to his stomach, all he had today was a couple drinks of water, and then threw that back up, then wanted some more,which he kept down till late this evening, dad said he was throwing up again when I called to let them know we made it home.. Both his legs are so swollen now they look like they could bust and the cancer has his stomach so swollen that its hard for him to breath, he set forward several times and let me scratch his back, it kind of comforts him a little..

    Dad was so aggrivated today because their was several of us there trying to get the room ready for his hospital bed, really he’s aggrivated because there is nothing he can do to change things , he can’t help Roger, I know how frustrated he is, you want so badly to make things alright but only God can do that…

    I Thank God for my Aunt Judy and my cousin’s they are such a help, everyone pitched in and it didn’t take long to get the second living room which is larger then Roger’s bedroom moved around so they can put the hospital bed in there and Sam put up a couple clips and a rope with two shower curtain’s across so he can have privacy when he needs it..

    My brother Frank is going up tomorrow to see that they put the bed in the right place and to help with other things that need to be done.. Its just so frustrating to know there’s really nothing you can do to help him…

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  70. mercy, Lord have mercy. My prayer is for peace, deep underlying peace, for you and your entire family, that has the power to go beyond all the suffering that you all see and feel.The peace that surpasses all understanding…in the midst of this terribly trying trial. So sorry for it all to be happening, thank God for family. Bless you all in Jesus name. Lord hear our prayer. Thy will be done. Strengthen them all with grace sufficient and with healing Father, amen. Praying for tremendous Love, an outpouring upon you all of Gods Love along with deep faith and understanding. Bless you Loop and thanks for bringing it forth to us all. Bless you Roger,Lord keep you brother.

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  71. Loop, I’m praying for your family, and you. I’m praying that God will send healing, refreshment for your souls, and peace.

    Tony Tar wrote:

    “Mr Baldy are you saying that the Beast n the Whore are one and the same? and that the False prophet n the Antichrist are one and the same as well?? and that Babylon the Great is the Beast???”

    And:

    “If, as you say, the mystery babylon is the economic system, why would the Beast devour it?,…OH, maybe i do see what your possibly getting at! Would i be right to assume that your presuming that The Beast will devour the current money system so to set up His very own, “Mark of the BEAST” 666 ECONOMY? That would make our current money system, Mystery Babylon. If this is your understanding and everyone on this site gets it but me, why then i apologize for being so slow to get the picture you are drawing. What say you?”

    Tony, you have discovered EXACTLY what I have been trying to convey. You and others must remember that I absolutely do not claim to be right. When reading the Book of Revelation, and as John described the coming Antichrist in his book prior to the revelation given to him by our Lord – I don’t see two end time players, but one. This Antichrist is accompanied by a Beast System that Satan sets up – which is economic. This same Empire will be set up prior to his “revelation”. I believe that the term “False Prophet” is given to him, because he is coming behind the works of Satan with all sorts of deception, signs, and lying wonders. This is not a separate man, in my very humble opinion. Scripture never mentions a second person in this end time scenario. John warns us of “Antichrist”, and not some “False Prophet” that will come.(1 John 2:18)

    Again, we must remember that the Book of Revelation is very symbolic. It describes events in figurative, or symbolic – and/or metaphoric language to show literal events that will occur during this time. This first Beast that arises from the Sea is indicative of Nations – this same language has occurred in the Book of Daniel – and this is how I have come to the understanding that Revelation 13:1-10 is describing the Forth and Final Empire. Revelation 13:11-18 is definitely describing a man – a lone man who will carryout Satan’s mission. It is him who will require ALL to worship the Beast System (Economic) in order to hold a job, maintain a standard of living, eat, – etc….. If you’ll read Revelation 13, you will see that in verse 12.

    In closing, if you’ll remember it was the WEU who gave it’s power and authority to the EU (Beast System) – which in my humble opinion was the fulfillment of Revelation 17:11-13. As we move closer to the A0D, I believe that all of this will come more apparent – and this is when we will all know for sure.

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  72. I was listening to Understanding the Times the other day with Jan Markell, Eric Barger(sp), and another guest who at one time was in congress and whose name escapes me. He at one time was over a committee that was part of FEMA . He served his 3 years on the committee and got out. He said he has a christian brother that until recently was in Fema and he had to get because they asked him and the other employees to sign something that said they had to do whatever was asked of them. He said whatever it was in the agreement caused him and other believers to get out leaving only unbelievers there to carry out whatever was in the agreement. The part that got me was he said that the antichrist will walk into a system that is already being put in place and is in place. I guess we knew that, but knowing what is going on with all these gov’t. agencies makes it real and creepy. He also said that he believes the hour is late and what FEMA has planned is coming soon. Take it for what its worth.

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  73. the F..ederal E..mergency M..anagement A..gency L..ast E..vent (FEMALE)(WHORE),

    has been riding the Beast of Economy and Polity since the First Tower was built to Square off Against God and Attempt to Stare him Down………Face to Face.

    The Demagogues, (Gog/Magog) WHORE’s of Society have needed to run around and plant Fear and Anarchy Worldwide to Unify and FACE OFF against God Almighty, and God Almighty will Show them ALL what……. their……….Order Out Of Chaos……..their….. LAST EVENT….. will Bring’m!!!!!

    I here ya Mr Baldy……Beast System….Economy/Polity….Beast System.

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  74. very well said shorttribber. i agree that when ac stands up to take his place in history he will have a system so set into place that it will take off like a shot–oiled and ready. political capital ready to spend in his tirade against God (and those who are His). but….I Love how the Bible ends! the Rightful and Righteous King of All Glory takes His Place holding the title deed to the earth–fiercely ripped out of the evil hands—Safely..into His.

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  75. Check this out too………….

    Recently I purchased a book by the title, “Inchiquin, the Jesuit’s Letters”, printed in 1810.

    One reason for bringing this up, and one reason i ended up with this book is because, i think at least that God is wanting me to “Connect the Dots”, so to speak, regarding the Powers that have moved Peoples and Economies in the past and of course, Now.

    There are of course within the book the things we are all familiar with….ya know, the connections of Free Masonry/Jesuits and yada yada. But the thing that got my attention just about an hour ago was the mention, by the Jesuit Inchiquin, of his Recommendation and Greatness of an Epic Poem called “Columbiad”.

    Try to hang with me here ok, it relates to recent developments here in the US and Mystery Babylon.

    Just look at the information about the book/poem “Columbiad” that I just found on Ebay…..

    Book Description: Printed by Fry & Kammerer for C. & A. Conrad and Co., Philadelphia, 1807. First Edition. This is not Snowden’s 1795 Columbiad, or a Poem on the American War, but rather Barlow’s expanded version of his “Vision of Columbus,” an epic account of Christopher Columbus’s voyage and other European explorations of North America, leading up to the Revolutionary War and the birth of the United States before predicting the spread of the federal system and eventual peace among all nations.

    Ohhh, good thing it’s not………..SNOWDEN’S book!!!!!!!………..Now just where have I heard that name Lately????????

    Here’s another Dot…….to Connect.

    The book I purchased, Inchiquin was owned original by the Great, Great, Great Grandson of Pocahontas……………known or called by several historians as the “Princess or Queen of America”.

    This book i have was owned by Col. William Bolling, and when i Googled for info about him i found that those Related to him were Thomas Jefferson, Jimmy Carter and New Ager Nancy Reagan, to name only a few.

    Also at the bottom of the search page on Col. William Bolling there i found also the name…………………….SNOWDEN.

    ………………HMMMMMMM……………..Last EVENT Soon coming it seems.

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  76. WOW! one thing is leading to the next here and i hear it loud n clear. The fact that Andrea spoke scripturly about Our God and the TITLE DEED brings a happy end to it all that we need to embrace fully! and Tribber that thing about fema, female WHORE is some interesting!,…and this all about Pocahontas/ Queen of America, and the Snowden, says to me that soon we’ll all be in the snow, a snow of white lies,…..i believe we’re ready. Mr. Baldy, i am still pondering on all of what you are saying. Scott i am taking what you have said for, what its worth, as the tide rushes in … a certain type of evcitement is building in my soul and in my spirit,…one of EXPECTATION!, this goes back to what Andrea mentioned!!

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  77. ..a certain type of eXcitement is building. whoops on the mis-spell! after all, this IS altogether exciting! The connect to Columbus and the whole thing! nice job, Tribber!

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  78. ” but….I Love how the Bible ends!”

    Oh ye Andre’, me too…..that’s why I like to call Ole Slewfoot by his rightful name……LOSER!

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  79. Mr. Baldy…

    You’re dragging me in… 🙂 I agree that the Beast and Whore are one in the same… I think that the 1st Beast of revelation 13 relates to the whore, the 2nd Beast is the order that the AC takes over and that is why it forces people to worship the image of the 1st Beast… The System is set up with the 1st Beast, but is not completed until the 1st Beast … (ie the Whore) is destroyed and the 2nd Beast rises…. The 2nd Beast is merely a continuation of the 1st Beast however… A continuation of the System, but again out of chaos comes order, the chaos needs to be created with the 1st Beast receiving a wound that is healed and thus the 2nd Beast… Daniel 7 and Revelation 13’s 1st Beast are 1 in the same… 3 nations morphed into 1 Beast… Which 3 nations… Britain/England, Russia, & Germany The 4th Beast of Daniel and the 1st Beast of Revelation – is none other then the US – The Whore, Daughter Babylon…
    Revelation 17: 10 – 11

    There are 7 Kings:

    7) Little Horn/UN – Revived Babylon/Revived Roman Empire
    6) America/Canada – Babylon (Daughters)
    5) Nazi Germany – Leopard
    4) Russia – Bear
    3) England/Britain – Lion
    2) Rome – Band of Iron (Daniel 4 – Dream of a Tree)
    1) Greece – Band of Brass (Daniel 4 – Dream of a Tree)

    5 Are Fallen:

    1) Greece
    2) Rome
    3) Lion/England
    4) Bear/Russia
    5) Leopard/Nazi Germany

    One Is:

    6) America/Canada/Daughters Babylon — 1st Beast Revelation 13

    The “Other” is not yet come:

    7) Little Horn/UN/Revived Babylon/Revived Roman Empire — 2nd Beast Revelation 13

    Obviously I’m not dogmatic, and just like you guys I’m trying to determine the truth of all this, but as I look at things I’m beginning to see things related that I wouldn’t think possible… I always thought the whore and the beasts were separate, now… Well it is very conceivable for them to be one in the same… I’m still in process of figuring things out… Hope this sheds some light on my thoughts, I have not got all my thoughts tied down yet… New York is the where the UN is headquartered… could easily be moved to Brussels if there were an attack by Fire… With the US taken out the other Nations could put the plan in place rather quickly… and ultimately safeguard all of humanity…

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  80. Beautifully explained yes! Amen and amen!

    It makes sense that the ” Other ” would rise up out of the ashes right!

    This ” Beast Order” has been in place for a very long time already ( here in Canada as well as in the US } and am blown away at the “technique” that was used to accomplish this.It’s been by diabolical design all along.

    Back in ’98 { and just brand new to Canada } I was asked to join a ministry{ name deleted } after being ” offered ” an almost hard to turn down position.
    Strangely enough there was a huge red flag in my spirit and the Lord called me to ask Him ” why”. I did, and ran as fast as my little legs could carry me 🙂

    It’s called the seven mountains and God forbid the one that exposes this religious militancy!!! it’s BRUTAL and THEY BITE! or shall I say DEVOUR.
    Bleep,,,,,,,,
    *business,
    *government
    *media
    *arts and entertainment
    * education
    * family and
    *religion.

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  81. There are those of us who believe that the A0D will come in the form of deception – and this is why Jesus mentions “let the reader understand”. Perhaps it will come by way of a hologram image that the coming Antichrist will have displayed on the “wing” of the Temple (Western Wall) of himself. This is what I believe may happen. Please take a look at the following link for your consideration:

    http://herescope.com/

    Please read it carefully….I welcome any feedback – both positive and negative, as this site displays what I feel is the way that the A0D “may” occur – even the site doesn’t specifically mention it.

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  82. i really see the beast and the whore as, yes, interconnected…like a horse and its rider,…but definitely 2 separate entities. as later on in scripture the beast moves on…without its rider. Unless i’m wrong, and i very well could be, we are playing a game of semantics here with all this scrutinizing. Also Jesus referred to Jerusalem and fallen Israel as a harlot, whore-ing after other gods, in connection with babylon of all things!

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  83. Collen i’m glad you made it out alive, and thanks for the warning! Heck wiff em’ anyhow! We don’t need them uncivilized goofballs using all that fancy jargon and what they call, rhetoric.

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  84. An update and a Thankyou all for the Prayers..

    Just to let you know, Roger got worse overnight at about three in the morning they had to call an ambulance and rush him back to hospital, they waited until about six to call us at that time he was having worse problems breathing, we rushed to Ripley hospital and he was already unconsious, he passed away at 9:45…

    It was hard with mom but is so much worse with Roger, even though I know he’s better off and that he is now not in any pain, I knew it wouldn’t be long yesterday but I still believed it would be at least a couple weeks.. his kidneys had completely shut down, he was sooooo swollen and never a complaint, even his dr commented about how he would ask him if he needed anything and said he knew Roger was in so much pain but never complained, he said Roger was his buddy, that he would really miss him..

    Dad is doing pretty well considering, all the Prayer must be working, and is probably why God was so merciful and went ahead and took him home, the nurse’s was saying it would probably be a while yet just like they said with mom, but God had other plan’s, but my heart is breaking.. I’m going to miss him so much.

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  85. He finished the race Loop…………I hope and pray your mourning is turned to praise……just try to imagine for a moment……what an exceedingly unspeakable Joy it must be for him to see his Savior……………Up Close……..and In Person.

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  86. goodness,..missler ought to be ashamed of himself! i happened to have read all of this at herescope about a week or two ago, mr Baldy. i’m surprised no mention of PROJECT BLUEBEAM!

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  87. Mr B, I posted that link on FP but it didn’t go down too well for me 😉 I wonder if it’s the way I talk hmmm? nah;)
    Hey by the way Tony, I try an ” wiff em” but get flamed pretty serious ya know, my eye brows are sizzlin….hhee.{Oh that was hilarious to write!}

    Loop we love ya sis and as Shelly said He is SO blessed to be with the Lord. Woot woot !
    Eye hath NOT seen….but Rodger sees now 🙂

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  88. i am glad you reposted this link to herescope Colleen. Its worth looking into and i would say rather amazing that they are bringing this all into focus. i didn’t think there was anything to even question.!,..???hummmm….

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  89. Brother Loop,
    first of all I want to offer my sincere condolences. You are now in a stage of acute loss and grief. I pray the Lord will comfort you and speak to your heart.

    We once had the privilege of briefly getting to know a family father who was dying of cancer, and who was nursed at home, until the end. Meeting him, you could sense that the Lord was present. He seemed so strong in faith, and seemed to have peace.
    God many times uses suffering in our lives to draw us closer to Him. (I know this personally to be true.) This means that suffering in the life of the believer can become a blessing – when you see what fruit it gives.
    Your brother being so patient, and not complaining, seems to indicate such fruit.

    May our Lord Jesus comfort you in your loss.

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  90. Mr.Baldy,
    I usually find myself agreeing with your comments. And even to some extent today.
    (Like you, I also hesitate to set America apart. How about all other nations? I do however understand those who do see it this way – for indeed the whole world seems to fornicate with America…)

    However, I do believe this time you yourself may be ‘reading into the text’?
    And this is always a danger for us. For, just like the scribes and scolars of Jesus time, who with their preconceived ‘understanding’ of Messiah’s appearance actually missed – Messiahs appearance – even as He stood right before them, so we risk missing what’s going on, if we already determine our ‘understandings’ too much ahead of time.

    A woman AND a beast seem very straight forward to me, to be TWO entities, and not one. However, the one (religious?) riding the other (temporal/political/military?) may for a time seem like ‘one’. But Scripture clearly states that at some point the beast will turn around, and tear the woman off its back. So, two players, not ‘one and the same’.

    I am not one myself to be rigidly set on one particular interpretation of who the main players will be, as it easily could blind us to developments that we were not prepared for.

    ONE take on the harlot is offered by Dr. Gavin Finley, whom I have come to apprecciate. An expat Ozzie living in the U.S., he has written extensively on eschatology, and has himself come to a post-trib conclusion.

    For those of you interested, here is one of his articles:
    http://endtimepilgrim.org/harlot.htm

    I cannot say that I uncritically agree with all he has ever written, but Gavin Finley has a gift of painting with words, and helps the reader see ‘the greater picture’ of God’s purposes through the end times. I have apprecciated reading many of is articles on Endtime Pilgrim.
    (Surprised so few seem to know of him.)

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  91. Gavin Finley of Endtime Pilgrim:
    “John was absolutely astounded to see the Harlot trying to ride the Beastly World government system. It is quite obvious that her position is untenable. The time will inevitably come when this woman of compromise will be unable to control the Beast. John saw the Beast turn on the woman. He saw the beast destroy her with fire. (Rev.17:15-17) “

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  92. Ingela you wrote this:

    “Mr.Baldy,
    I usually find myself agreeing with your comments. And even to some extent today.
    (Like you, I also hesitate to set America apart. How about all other nations? I do however understand those who do see it this way – for indeed the whole world seems to fornicate with America…)
    However, I do believe this time you yourself may be ‘reading into the text’?
    And this is always a danger for us. For, just like the scribes and scolars of Jesus time, who with their preconceived ‘understanding’ of Messiah’s appearance actually missed – Messiahs appearance – even as He stood right before them, so we risk missing what’s going on, if we already determine our ‘understandings’ too much ahead of time.
    A woman AND a beast seem very straight forward to me, to be TWO entities, and not one. However, the one (religious?) riding the other (temporal/political/military?) may for a time seem like ‘one’. But Scripture clearly states that at some point the beast will turn around, and tear the woman off its back. So, two players, not ‘one and the same’.
    I am not one myself to be rigidly set on one particular interpretation of who the main players will be, as it easily could blind us to developments that we were not prepared for.”

    Dear Ms. Ingela,

    You have GREATLY misunderstood what I have written, and have tried to convey. You will NEVER read anywhere where I have wrote, that I believe that the woman and the Beast are one and the same. What I have written is that the 1st Beast System mentioned in Revelation 13 and Mystery Babylon “may” be one and the same, in my very humble opinion. What I have made the comparison with is the fact that most people believe that Revelation 13 is describing two men – IE, the coming Antichrist, and a False Prophet. I respectfully disagree with this assessment.

    While I greatly welcome anyone who is in disagreement with me, as I don’t have all the answers, but I really don’t appreciate it when one doesn’t represent what I have written. Perhaps you may want to go back and read what I actually did write, and not “read into it”.

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  93. Oh, then I am really sorry!
    It was never my intention to misrepresent your view.
    And my comment was meant to come across in a loving, brothery/sisterly tone, which sometimes gets ‘lost in translation’.
    I do understand what you are saying (even if I have a sligtly different view).

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  94. Ingela, the way you responded to Mr Baldy is, to me, sweet as it gets. Good for you, it shows 1. how much you respect Mr Baldy, and 2.the quality of a person you are. i couldn’t help but notice. to put it quite plainly,…your nice.

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  95. Tony, YOU are nice! 🙂
    Thank you brother. I apprecciate your quirky humour.
    You’ve helped lighten up my day.

    We’ve been going through a bottleneck experience all summer, having to fix our house up for selling. And now it’s nicer than ever – just as we’re leaving it! A classic.
    My health has determined it’s time to make that ‘retireds house move’, just twenty years early!
    We also put great granny in a nursing home yesterday, and today I’m just about ready for nursing home myself… 🙂

    Through all our worldly struggles, and our daily cares, HE is faithful and doesn’t deny Himself. We depend on our Helper for every step we take.

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  96. Ingela you just made my day! I agree your response speaks volumes ! Precious and priceless !

    Nursing homes are one of my favourite places in the whole world{ other than the beautiful beach five min from my home} 😉

    As part of my work { no not work, my” privilege” } I get to lay aside every act of ” self” by aiding the elderly. One thing I’ve learned from them is that they are the most precious gifts in my life that the Lord has given me to unwrap.I LOVE IT!!

    I have a serious weakness for them 🙂 ENJOY and hugs to you Ingela.

    I love that our little place is becoming ” human”.

    Tony you are a riot!

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  97. Ah ha ha ha ha…..! Hillarious! 😀 How cute!

    I agree with you, sister. It would’n hurt, our being a little more ‘human’ – even with such serious subjects as endtime prophecy.
    You know, when we speculate in excess, perhaps it wouldn’t hurt to remind ourselves that we are but specs (of dust) spec-ulating. We are so dependent upon our heavenly Father for that greater perspective.
    As is, we view things, even biblical prophecy, from our limited, earthly per-spec-tive.
    (Sorry, just had to!)
    We desperatly need our Helper in all things.

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  98. nice play on words Ingela. The creature/ CREATOR distinction is a trip, if i may use such language. i mean a real “trip”./ nursing homes ROCK!,…i’ll go look at the above video link now. Btw, if you were me and you got hit wit sammys love and 11 weeks later [which seemed like 11 yrs., to me] you got hit w/ my little MnM peanut maggie’s love , which is actually GODS LOVE, well,…you’d be a little touched as well. i’m over the rainbow,…and this website has beautiful people

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  99. crazy funny video, i like that lady!, shes in touch. The guys kinda goofey!!, someone had better keep an eye on him!

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  100. ….all we are is dust in the wind,……..and then when we come to CHRIST,..a strange and wonderful metamorphosis begins to take place!,…….PRAISE GOD!!,….keep on frappin’ there gal! you make me smile, on the inside!

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  101. …nope,…..my dogs! black cocker spaniels!! Its a long story,..but a wonder full one indeed. when i started on this web site a few yrs back, along with the prophecy stuff, i spoke all about the , love of my life, sam, who made a Big deposit of Gods love, into my heart, enriching my life to no end. But hey, thats what Gods Love does……./… to make a long story short, sam is now in heaven with my mom,….and sams mom, maggie is now, miracously, here on earth with me,! and with my son, and with my lovely x-wife, who, for years now has acted like she does NOT like me anymore!,…and she still acts that-a-way! Geeze, whats the world coming to? Maggie is sam all over again!,…in your face, up close and personal, LOVE!!! and Colleen embraced all of it as i shared it,…and she too has blessed me in a BOMBSHELL way ever since, sincerely.!! /// Thanks for asking Ingela and i do wish you well on this transition in your life. Thats funny how your house is all fixed up and lookin’ good and now yer movin’ out,….great! whats wrong with this picture????? Hey, listen,….my life is fallin’ ta pieces,…and yet, and yet, we keep the faith and press on for the higher calling! Bless us Lord! bless us all. i’m a mess, my lifes a mess……..however, The Lord Jesus is organizing things ultimately.amen, i give Thanks

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  102. …when i mentioned, Colleen, above . Colleen = His Own, you probably already know that. She blesses as she goes along!

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  103. Ingela when you mentioned your great granny, it made me think of “granny” off the Beverly Hillbillys! Holy Smoke!

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  104. Okey, Tony, now I’m with you.
    Believe it or not, but I think I can relate both to your joy and to your grief. I love dogs myself! And for seven years my sweet Nelson has been cuddled up on my arm… Now, we realized he wouldn’t make a good apartment dog, since he is a little too trigger happy on the bark side of the moon.
    So, we had to face facts, and try finding him a new home.

    And Tony, it’s amazing how the Lord answered my prayers on that one! ust as I was about ready to give up, wefoud just the right ‘mummy’ for him. Leaving my beautiful, loyal friend was heart wrenching, and I wept for two solid days. But now I see he’s happy and thriving. And I sincerely believe this was a match made in heaven!

    (Sorry for all the off topic doggie talk, you’all. But glory to God for caring in small things, and in big. As we commit ALL of our lives to Him, He surely cares for us.)
    Tony, I’m glad for you, that you have found comfort in sweet Maggie. Sometimes I think we as christians trivialize, and grade certain things as less important.
    But I see the glory of God in His creation – and certainly in the beautiful dogs he made to be our companions!

    You have been so honest and open, telling of how your life is a mess. Yes, and but for the grace of God my life would be too. It’s been scarily close at times… Mostly because of my/our own stubborn sin.
    Tell you what, brother: The can/will Lord use every circumstance in our lives to get us closer to Him. We suffer because of our own foolishness, or we suffer innocently. Suffering IS part of the christian walk. Let no one say otherwise. But, it’s what’s happening on the inside, that’s important. Circumstances may be as they are. But we can change.
    Yes, He can take us ‘from glory to glory’, while our outer circumstances may remain the same.

    It is He who wants to do a great work IN us.
    (Got carried away there a bit.)
    May the Lord set a table for you, in full view of your enemies. May He anoynt your head with joy, and may your cup of sweet fellowship with Him flow over, even in the midst of persecution.

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  105. Oh God, You are so nice. Thank you. I’m so happy your the way you are,….stay that way! You are truly wonderful., and you have soo blessed me,…everything you said hits home, EVERYTHING! //// Your funny w/ your great choice of words, ole’ Nelson and the bark side of the moon! thats crazy! So glad he is in good hands and your at peace and even joyful[ that word reminds me of colleen] over his placement. Praise God! /// Btw, do you know or realize that your above paragraph started out with; BELIEVE IT OR NOT!,….well hey, i been enjoying that song, by James Taylor lately as it has re-emerged in my mind. Found it on google / youtube. and it makes me think of sam and maggie,…and when i listen to it i feel something soooo deep inside……. Bless you, Ingela……..you have certainly blessed me.

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  106. Ingela,

    Just want to say thank you for the apology. It really wasn’t necessary, but in your doing so, it really shows me that you are very sincere, and a good hearted person. I’ve not had time to respond to you in a more timely manner, but I have had the opportunity just today, to look at the link that you provided. I feel that it’s right on point. Thank you for it.

    People of God – He is GOOD!

    Over the past few days, I have really been tried. Tried by a very, very bad supervisor. Listening to the Word of God gave me comfort. A Preacher mentioned being tried by the things (spiritual beings) that are invisible, and how it relates to the things that are in the physical world – at least as we know it, and their influence on the Body of Christ. This Pastor reminded me of how our fight is not against flesh & blood – IE, my very bad supervisor – but against the demonic powers who want to seek to kill, and destroy those who believe in Christ – using those who don’t know Him to carryout Satan’s mission. I have to pray for my supervisor, as Scripture commands us to.

    Today I was able to recover a very important item for a family who had reported the item missing or stolen. When I contacted the person who actually took the item (through no fault of his/her own) it turns out this person is a Christian. (It actually took a few days to narrow this person down). But when I explained the circumstances to this person, and how very important this item was to this family, I could tell that God was with this person. This person was honest, and immediately told me that she/he was a Believer, and there was no intent of theft – and that they had received this item by permission of someone who actually thought this item was of no value. This person further explained to me that the timing of my call was incredible – as they were not suppose to have been available to receive calls, and the call was by Divine Intervention, as he/she did not believe in “things just happen”; or “coincidence”. The item was returned to me immediately.

    I can go into further details, but I choose not to in order to protect the nature of the situation, and/or the people involved. But know this GOD is GOOD! This person had no idea that I was a believer. As a matter of fact, hearing me first, then later seeing me in a Police Uniform actually may have made this person think that I was not a believer at all – yet I was witnessed to. Isn’t God Amazing!!

    Just wanted to share this with you all, as I read Ingela’s apology.

    God Bless!

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  107. I really think God sets up those little appointments as a way of reminding us that in all things, he is in control.

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  108. How sweet is the communion of believers…
    You have all begun to grow precious to me. Amazing how we can sit on opposite sides of the globe, and yet feel the unity of the Body. I feel so blessed an privileged to live in such a time as this.

    Tony, what can I say?
    I woke up to a dream this morning, that my sweet Nelson had run all the many miles back to us, and that I held his starved, exhausted body in my arms as he was whining… Awoke with heart pounding, and had to remind myself he is all right. But I do feel I kan relate somewhat to your grief. It’s no less real just because it’s a dog.
    God knows our sorrows, everyry one. And He will one day wipe away all our tears. What a beautiful day that will be.

    Dear Mr. Baldy,
    thank you for sharing this today. My apprecciation for you as a brother grows all the more. Your experience just proves how trials, testings, as well as blessings come wearing different clothes. And many times, in the midst of a testing situation, a blessing pops up to surprise us!
    Thank you for reminding me to pray for those who give us a hard time. Must confess I have gotten out of the habit. (If I can honestly say I ever had a habit.)

    God is faithful to finish His good work in us. Wonderful to know it’s His work! He for sure hasn’t gotten out of any habits!

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  109. I love it.
    Thank-you guys for the beautiful fellowship and the sweet aroma of Christ.Even if we don’t agree 100% in ALL things I know when the Holy Spirit bears witness.Not one of us can claim to ” know it all” if we do then we are in for some pretty serious humbling and abasing right 😉

    God RESISTS the proud. What exactly does it mean ” RESIST” .Wow what a powerful word!

    The Lord is taking me through a series of biblical verses on the “son’s of Belial and the Jezebel spirit ” { that KNOWS no gender } and how these are placed into our lives to TEST us to see if we will follow after OTHER gods {which is spiritual adultery } or the test is sent to HUMBLE , much like Hezekiah as he boasted in his ” prospering ” when God “left him alone only to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

    We have this weird misconception that to serve “other god’s” is prostrating one’s self before some carved man -made structure. IT AIN”T!! It can be as simple as the I, ME and MYSELF” god” or a habitual ungodly lifestyle of pursing every sensual lust on plant earth, yet still calling ” jesus lord ” {Note little “j and lord ” } or it can be the god of “food, fun,& frolicking” = H e d o n i s m = same sin at the feet of the golden calf right 😉 Wait hang on a sec,,,it’s called BAAL worship and the pleasure god – Ashteroth! or better still it can be “You can have the ABUNDANT LIFE – HERE AND NOW.” $$$, FUN & CHEAP GRACE.

    Oh God have mercy. Another jesus, another spirit! GET OUT God cries !!

    Deu 8:2 — And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

    2Cr 6:15 — And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

    2Cr 6:16 — And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    2Cr 6:17 — Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

    Deuteronomy 13
    King James Version (KJV)
    13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
    2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
    3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
    4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
    5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
    6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
    7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
    8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
    9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
    10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
    11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
    12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
    13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
    14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
    15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
    16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
    17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the Lordmay turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
    18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord thy God.

    “Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known” (Deuteronomy 13:13 KJV)

    I wanted to end this by quoting a beautiful sister in Christ’ { sorry for the hasty post and thoughts but these have been burning in my heart for days }

    “The cross is death to our flesh and sinful nature.
    Many profess Christ but despise the cross. The cross is central to rebirth and everlasting life. Remove that and you remove the power.
    Jesus said very few would find it.
    Everyone of us need to ask ourselves if we are applying the cross to our lives on a daily basis. “Take up your cross and follow Me.”
    It’s the difference between being a “believer” of Jesus and a “FOLLOWER” of Jesus!”

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  110. “””Ingela
    August 12, 2013 – 9:35 am Brother Loop,
    first of all I want to offer my sincere condolences. You are now in a stage of acute loss and grief. I pray the Lord will comfort you and speak to your heart.”””

    Thank you , by the way I am a sister…..

    My brother’s funeral was yesterday, such a hard day, such a dreadful day, but he looked soooo peaceful… So many family and friends there, I have a very large very close family both sides dad’s and my mom’s.. cousin’s who when they had problems moved in and lived with us and my parents so many of my cousins are more like brother/sisters to me.. we hold each other up.. My husband is a solid rock for me and my family, if anyone needs something they always know he’s there, he has a lot on his strong shoulders, my brother was the same, strong and helped so many, all I can think about right now is his beautiful smile they day before he passed into Gods kingdom and telling me he ws fine and didn’t need anything and was more worried about me then himself, such a precous brother and I’m so blessed to have him and my other two brother’s adn my dad, my entire family…

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  111. …that dream of yours really moved me Ingela! / Colleen your use of scripture really moved me. / Loop, your testimony moves me and your husband Sam, sounds like a solid blessing., Praise God!

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  112. Just a sheep, Rob, i have questions i’d love to throw your way, i just don’t know where to start, you know, Israel n prophecy, etc.., maybe i can organize them into a coherent pack, maybe not?,…my mind swirls round n round,…..maybe i think too much,…its seems to me , at times, that these questions aren’t that important after all ?,..just surrender your life to Him and all else shall be added unto you. I seek a mindful healthy balance with respect to it all and a deep relationship with Jesus; up close n personal! Blessings to us all on that,…..childlike FAITH in connection with sound minded reason with Gods word and a spirit filled vessel. I pray for these things in Jesus name, amem.

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  113. Loop, oops! Sorry… sister. 🙂

    Hisown, you’re so right about idolatry, and the crucified life.
    I’m afraid we see more of the former than of the latter…

    Tony, you nailed it in your last comment.
    Childlike faith, the Word, and a Spirit filled – broken – vessel. That goes a long way.

    (Night night.)

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  114. Loop – we are all here mourning with you, and praying that the Lord would comfort you as you grieve for your brother’s passing. We all know it’s not grieving as the world grieves though and that we have a hope of fellowship with the Lord and with all of our brothers and sisters who have gone ahead. It doesn’t make us yearn for our loved ones company any less – so we weep with you as you miss the regular time with your brother until you see him again in the kingdom.

    Tony – You are always welcome to ask the people so many faithful brothers and sisters who will search the scriptures to help us find what God has said about our questions, not what man has said. You hit it on the head though as Ingela said – sometimes the answers aren’t as important as what you said – our regular fellowship with the Lord and choosing to invite him into our lives every day. The projections, prognostications, estimates and theories aren’t worth anything next to the steadfast love of a savior who has promised to return for us and who makes a place for us to dwell with him forever. We’ll keep studying and guessing though hoping we know him better in the process by carefully examining his handiwork and pouring over his every word.

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  115. Tony that must be one of the most humblest { and honest } comment’s I’ve read in a long time. Thank-you for your transparency, it makes you real!

    Guess what!!!.NONE of us know fully…but do IN PART 😉

    These are the verses the Lord laid on my heart all night. I love it !

    1Cr 8:2 — And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

    For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

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  116. blessings abound in all directions in Christ Jesus, Son of the Most High,….carry on people and be blessed!,….smile on your brother,….my cup runs over

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  117. Right on, Hisown!
    You know, Tony, the more I come to know the Lord through His wonderful Word, the more I realize that what I thought I knew doesn’t amount to very much! And that some things we have been taught and held for true, in fact do not hold the test against the Truth…

    I’ve had to re-learn a number of things since the Lord began to wake me up just a few years ago. Back to the Foundations!

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  118. i hate!, when that happens!,..when you learn things that yer gonna have ta take n unlearn!! but i reckon its all part a learnin’. Btw Ingela if your across the globe, can you tell us where? God be with you. the article i’m looking at now is going into just what was Paul exactly, addressing to the Galatians concerning the law,…specifically. I stumbled upon a site called,…here a little, there a little with what appears to be full of careful, scholarly, well written, through studies into Gods word. /// P.S. i was , going back to my intrest in where your writing from, just curious, and wondering if there are more like you!, out there,….send them this-a-way sister!!!

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  119. …and i know Colleen seconds that! You two get along, ” gooder than heck”! your both smart., wiff wisdom that is!, not just knowledge.

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  120. Ingela, when you said, night, night…….i thought , man this gal is a lite-weight , she goes to bed EARLY!,…..but hey, your on the OTHER SIDE of the Globe sister,…its ok. I’m just bein’ silly, n having fun. But i have got ta get busy here,……yeah right,……i’m feelin’ lazy as heck, and my version of busy is NOT gonna make the grade.,……PRAY FOR ME!!!!!!!, i’m a prayin’ for y’all! Y’all come back now, ya hear!

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  121. Shelly!!! you said it sister, with vivid imagery that burns into my memory cells. Praise God and Blessen’s. you make my heart, sooooo happy!

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  122. …or should i say, PRAISE GOD and Pass the BLESSEN’S!, please. Shelly, to God be this true; that when i sent that last post/ comment to Ingela , a few moments ago, i hsd you soo on my mind as i waz sayin’, y’all come back now, ya hear! then i sent it and, BOOM!, there you were wiff that awesome comment! like i said, my cup runneth over, with joy, in the Lord! thank you, bless you,……you have blessed me, again.

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  123. ” Praise God, n pass the blessen’s, please”. Now thats southern!, down south, down home! Hi Andrea….hope your well!

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  124. i need ta get busy and git sum werk done round here! ,….yeah rite!, ….not gonna happen!,…toooo lazy. heck wiff it.

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