Why Eze 38/39 can not be pre-trib.

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There is much talk on the possibility of the Eze 38/39 war happening very soon because of what is happening in the ME and between Israel and Iran. I want to point you to some Scripture to show you that it is impossible for the war to start soon. Just to clarify, I am not sure were the war fits into the timeline, but I know it can not be before the Abomination of Desolation (AoD).

We are getting close to the time known as the tribulation and the time of Jacobs trouble. We know that Israel did return to their land as prophesied ages ago, but we also know that they did not return to the Lord as a nation. So we do have the physical restoration, but we are still awaiting the spiritual restoration of Israel. Now lets look at a more complete part of Scripture that I have posted yesterday:

Zec 12:7-11 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Here it can be seen that there will only be a national spiritual restoration when the Lord defends Israel by destroying the nations that seek to destroy Israel and when they see Him whom they have pierced return in Glory. There will be 144000 Israelis sealed during the tribulation, but I do not think that counts as national restoration.

But now lets look what happens during and after the battle of Gog/Magog:

Eze 38:23  Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Eze 39:-76 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD. So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

Eze 39:29  Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Now this sounds final to me and it sounds like Zec 12:7-11 posted above. After the battle Israel will be restored to the Lord their God and the whole world will know it. Now lets look at what Jesus is telling the Israel:

Mat 24:15-21 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Now my friends, I believe we all agree that Jesus is referring to the AoD and the start of the 3.5 years great tribulation A.K.A the time of Jacobs trouble. I want to ask you some serious questions to consider.

1) In light of the Scripture quoted out of Ezekiel, will Israel be restored to their God after the battle, with God promising to NEVER hide His face from them again?

2) God said that Israel will know Him from that day forward in Ezekiel? If so, why will they need to flee and  go through persecution when they see the AoD?

3) Will God have mercy on Israel, and then send them through tribulation?

This leads to the conclusion that the Eze 38/39 battle and restoration to God can not be before the AoD. I can not find any reason why God will allow Israel to be persecuted just after they are spiritually awakened by Him.

Now I know some of you think that I am thinking Gog and Armageddon is the same or that Gog is at the end of the millennium. Nope, you are wrong. I am on to something else, but more about that later.

But before I go, lets look quickly at the following. There is a statement that Israel will live in peace before the Gog battle. Some has said that this points to the “peace treaty” the antichrist will make with them. A 7 year peace treaty is not Scriptural, so I am not going discuss that option. Lets look at the original word for “peace” in Stongs.

H983: From H182 properly a place of refuge; abstractly safety, both the fact (security) and the feeling (trust); often (adverbially with or without preposition) safely: – assurance, boldly, (without) care (-less), confidence, hope, safe (-ly, -ty), secure, surely.

H982: A primitive root; properly to hie for refuge (but not so precipitately as H2620); figuratively to trust, be confident or sure: – be bold (confident, secure, sure), careless (one, woman), put confidence, (make to) hope, (put, make to) trust

Is this the Israel of today? I will say it is. They are safe in their own country. For 2000 years they had no rest, no place of their own, they had to flee, they were persecuted. Now they are safe, in peace and in their own country. The only time they will have more peace is when the Prince of Peace rules in Jerusalem.

If you think I am in error, please comment. Lets learn together. This is an open discussion.

78 thoughts on “Why Eze 38/39 can not be pre-trib.”

  2. I think we will see a financial banking collapse before WAR of any sort.. depending on who goes first the EU or USA. When the US reach their next debt limit which will probably be after the election then all bets are off more than likely but its only speculation from my part and what i have read.
    ANyway here is another interesting article..

    CHART OF THE DAY: The Spanish Housing Chart That’s Going To Crush The Banking System

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-spanish-housing-index-2012-3?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Triggermail&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Money%20Game%20Chart%20Of%20The%20Day&utm_campaign=Moneygame_COTD_032812#ixzz1qYyJUWMe

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  3. On the link you posted Vic that is pretty scary stuff in reality..
    We are so close to a cashless society and most people don’t even realize it.

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  4. “Will God have mercy on Israel, and then send them through tribulation?”

    Has not God mercy on us and we will go through tribulation?

    “That Day”, IMO, will BEGIN on DAY one (AOD included and beginning on the first physical 24 hr. day) of the last three and a half, and “That Day”/DURING the final 3.5 is when The Power and Kingdom shall be present ON EARTH in the saints and there will be a national repentance of Israel DURING the final 3.5.
    So the invasion could occur any day and continue through the 3.5 and end at Armageddon…..IMO.

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  5. Peter, I think you may miss my the point of the post. Israel and the Church WILL go through tribulation, we as followers of our Lord who were also martyred and Israel for the last time as a nation for their rejection of Jesus.

    You are on to something with the rest of your comment.

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  6. “The only time they will have more peace is when the Prince of Peace rules in Jerusalem.”
    I can not agree that Israel fits the description of being “careless” , “secure” , “bold” , or overall “in a place of refuge”. Perhaps if there wasn’t a constant threat from missiles, rock throwing from Temple Mount, an attack from Iran….etc., etc., I could believe it.

    However, there will be a future time they will live in peace before Christ returns. And I might add, this kind of peace actually fits the description of living in peace and safety –

    “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

    “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”

    If God prepares a place, then I’d say the remnant would definitely be in peace and safety. To add a little more, I think that Psalm 23 is a reference to this time of peace – “maketh me lie down in green pastures”.. “leadeth me beside the still waters”…”walk thru the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil….” and I especially think the verse of “preparing a table before me in the presence of my enemies” is so fitting. And, beautiful.

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  11. Preachthegospel,

    Clearly you have assumed that my question to you was one of ” criticism”. Please know that you don’t need to “convince” me of something that the Lord has showing me since July last year when He gave me the FIVE SMOOTH STONES. My convictions of which were met by some pretty sceptical comments from my own household (just ask my hubby as he’s not able to wrap his head around this one as he only has just grasped the reality of the “pre wrath, we are the Naos and the blood covenant with many in Daniel 9:27″ concept) I totally understand why you feel the ” need ” to defend your position.

    I was skying a sister in Christ last night and mentioned that I’m at the point where I’m almost too afraid to pray as the Lord has been answering in ways that are almost impossible to comprehend.The point I was trying to make is that never in my 19 yr walk with Christ have I seen the power of prayer being so manifested as it has been of late. I humbly believe the Lord is strengthening our faith for the days ahead and to trust in Him soley.

    I expect the ” backlash” from my stand and can only stand on what the Word of God is teaching me. If there is any error in my thinking, the Lord has promised to show me.

    Until we all come to the unity of the faith…….

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  12. I found the e-mail discussion (from last year ) I had with this sister and the clip she sent me and wanted to share FWIW

    In the ” Spirit” of Elijah right 🙂

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  13. The mystery & position 🙂

    That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Eph 2:4…But God, who is rich in Mercy, for His Great Love wherewith he Loved us,

    5…Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us TOGETHER with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6…And hath raised us up TOGETHER, and made us sit together in HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus.

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  15. Also – re the above: I don’t accept as accurate the assumption that the two witnesses are Israel in the church. I believe the text is quite clear that they are two men – and in Revelation11:10 it refers to them as “two prophets”. I am unaware of any instance elsewhere in scripture where all of Israel, or all of the church is referred to singularly as “a prophet”. Also it doesn’t make sense all of Israel and all of the church could lie slain in the city of Jerusalem, and it contradicts scripture in that we know that not everyone in the church taste death before we are brought into the Lord’s presence on that day (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). So no, the church and Israel will not be slain the city where our Lord was crucified – God’s two witnesses, his final two prophets will be.

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  18. Preach- I’m not following you, are you saying that since the nation of Israel does not recognize Jesus as our savior that God has cancelled his promise with Abraham or replaced the nation of Israel with the church? If you are, it is an error we have dealt with several times here. Yes, we know that the people of Israel can be saved by only one name under heaven. If Israel’s heart is hardened againt him – it is for our sake, until we the gentiles have come in.

    If that is what you are saying – that Israel has been “replaced” by the church I would suggest tthat you go and carefully re-read Romans 11 and meditate on its truth about God’s promise to Abraham.

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  21. Preach wow , unless I am mis reading you all I see is arrogancy with , no humility or having any desire to edify but a spirit of tearing down.

    There sees to be a clear for the Jewish nation.

    I’m done with this discussion ” friend” 🙂

    Pro 8:13 — The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

    Pro 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised [is] wisdom.

    Mr Sheep if I’m incorrect in my though’st on the two witnesses, please do pray for me that the Lord show me that. Until then I will wait on Him.

    Agape

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  23. Preach, I don’t know about you, but I take every single word in the Bible very seriously. I take all the promises of God very seriously and I do not take away or add from the Word. I like to discuss the Word, but on some things the Word is clear and there is just no reason to debate about it as it will then turn into false teachings. With that said, let the Lord Himself show you the truth on the reign of Jesus from earthly Jerusalem and with physical Israel and His bride. Please note that these verses are talking about physical earth, not the new Jerusalem.

    “The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places.” (Ezekiel 43:5-7)

    The inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, “Let us continue to go and pray before the Lord, and seek the Lord of hosts. I myself will go also.”
    “Thus says the Lord of hosts; ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’ ” (Zechariah 8:21-23)

    “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)

    “And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    “And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
    If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.” (Zechariah 14:16-18 )

    “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; … and the lion shall eat straw like the ox, the nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole, and the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” (Isaiah 11:6-9)

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  24. If Shortribber won’t mind, here are his thoughts ( I’ve been studying personally) and pray that he will join in the discussion 🙂

    ” When the AOD occurs the second Parosia of Christ BEGINS………and culminates at His Physical coming in the clouds at the Seventh trump after 3.5 years plus maybe a few unknown number of days of the last 75 days spoken of at the end of Daniel 12. Christ will again “sit” and Judge during that LAST 3.5 years of His CONFIRMATION of the COVENANT. He will again “sit” as a refiner, as a separator of the sheep and the goats when He comes (parousia) in his KINGDOM. He will separate the false swearers from truth tellers and the wheat from the chaff, He will sweep the floor of His House. He will try the hearts of men when He is present (parousia) at His Kingdom. He will measure HIS TEMPLE with the measuring staff and plumline of TRUTH, HE will measure with His two witnesses Joshua and Zerubabel……..those WHO HAVE and SHARE the SAVLATION TESTIMONY(Joshua) of Jesus and who were BORN in BABEL(Zerubabel).
    When the AOD occurs and antichrist the Loser is cast to earth, Daniel 12: 10 and 11, the Kingdom of God and the power of His Christ will fill His two witnesses Johsua and Zerubabel (144,000 and the Church) and the Last Half of the CONFIRMATION with MANY will commence. The “Spirit of prophecy” and the “knowing of the Spirit of Truth” will bring the Body of Christ, the Bride, into perfection and readiness to receive the Son and we WILL BE a “chaste virgin”, a “bride without spot or wrinkle or any such thing”.
    Christ will CONFIRM HIS WORD and HIS PROMISE and the world will know who are His and who are not. We will RECEIVE from Christ the FAITH…………OF………CHRIST. WE will do as He did and love not our lives to the death. Just as Christ WOULD NOT sin………..we WILL NOT because GOD will WORK in us and He WILL…..CONFIRM us until the end.”

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  25. Ezekiel’s temple is described as the place of Jesus’ throne *and the place for the soles of His feet. Heaven is His throne and the earth is His footstool. Therefore, Ezekiel’s temple is part in the heavenly realm way above the tallest mountain and part for the soles of His feet (earth). Its both. There will be those who live on the earth and some who live in the heavenly portion.

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  26. Isaiah 66:1 This is what the LORD says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.

    Acts 7:49 ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be?

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  27. oh yes indeed watching-anything jerusalem—-(the navel of the world as they say)-temple mount–pesach observance–rallys/marches–armies!–anything we are seeing these days on the ground-on site-in that place that God Himself named israel (not really palestine now is it?) is leading up to something alright! and all in good time-Gods’ timetable. i do not want to become lax in watching just because i don’t “see” certain things happen. i’m trusting my way through the revelations happening in our day and time. God promised to light the way-and He has and will be-Faithful. what an exciting (& somewhat frightening) time to live!

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  29. Wow!!

    James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.

    Rom 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

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  33. Preach you said ” Now if I am causing division then good because that is the way Christ Jesus wants it, right!”

    Wow what did I miss here? agape love? humility?

    I rest my case.

    Shalom to you preach 🙂

    That I may KNOW Him and the fellowship of His sufferings 🙂

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  34. Preach, I did not read your whole comment as it gets boring, but I can say the following: You bring a different Gospel and I think it is time for you to move along. We are here to learn from each other, not to spread division as you admit yourself you are doing.

    If the Lord wants to rebuke Hisown1, He will rebuke her personally. He does not need a nameless stranger causing division to rebuke her. Who do you think you are cursing people on this site??

    I do not want to get into a conversation with you. I can just say that you are spreading a false Gospel and we are not interested in it. Please move along stop cursing people in the name of the Lord

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  35. Hello there justasheep, Rob I think you said, Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and *signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Signified (spoken in symbols). There are deeper spiritual truths throughout the book of Rev. than what we see on the surface.

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  36. Agreed Shelby – the best way to understand Revelation is by interpreting it through the lens of the rest of scripture. Things that a clearly symbols (beasts with multiple heads, many horns, horses of different colors, etc) should be understood as symbols. Things that are clearly literal (a man, a church, a prophet, the saints, the city where Jesus was crucified, etc) should be understood literally when possible and not explained away into some spiritualized gobbledygook that can be twisted by unstable minds to mean whatever they think it should mean. I still have many questions about the meaning of texts that describe future events. I am suspicious of anyone that comes here with certain absolute answers to them all – we need to be like the bereans here every day. I will accept that interpretation which respects that words are important, the Word of God has a meaning – and that interpretation must not contradict any other scripture.

    My point about Revelation 11 – is that there are qualities of the subject of that passage that logically indicate two flesh and blood men, two propets yet future. Those men may satisfy some deeper symbolic purpose as part of God’s plan – but I have yet to see evidence from other scripture that assures that the two witnesses mentioned are to be understood in a purely spiritual way and not as literal prophets of the one true God.

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  37. Until he comes- we should all be praying for each other that none of us be deceived in any way about the surety of our Lords coming, or be fooled by the false christs that have come into the world. In reality- I know one thing thats important, that we persevere until Christ snatches away or returns on the clouds in the same way he was taken up in Acts. The rest of the details are given to encourage us, and for us to see that the time of harvest is upon us. Whether we’ve got one thing right or wrong in our interpretation of scripture is really less important – as long as we’ve got the one thing that matters, that our Lord is coming for us and we are to proclaim his name until he comes – the rest is of far less importance. When God’s witnesses are here – if I’m right that they are two prophets, their presence will be unmistakeable. Will they symbolize something else as well? Yes that has been written about at length and speculated on extensively. Thank you as always Hisown- keep being a like a Berean, and keep testing the spirits so that you be certain that they are of God.

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  38. Preach,

    I feel the need to step in here on behalf of my friend, HisOwn.
    If you must continue with your terrible accusations, you should be addressing your words towards me as I am the person who sent this video to HisOwn during a time when we were praying for a greater understanding of the Two Witnesses. HisOwn was only offering a very small segment for others to pray about here and unfortunately, you have taken this to a whole other level; not to mention such disrespect for Israel.
    If you feel the need to continue with such heinous harassments, I ask that you direct them to me and not to HisOwn…she does not deserve to be treated and spoken to the way you have done so and I rebuke you for that in Jesus’ powerful Name. Your anger has caused your accusations to be full of wicked intent and the way in which you present our Christ is treacherous.
    Dear HisOwn, I am very sorry that you have had to deal with this. I hope you will accept my apology.
    Be Blessed in Christ Jesus…he loves you so very much.

    Hugs,
    Joeybee

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  39. Enforcing my beautiful sis.

    My words are not able to express the appreciation and true agape love you and Vic have displayed in defence of this ye sis. How do I even begin to express how this has been a gift from our Father and a small glimpse of what we will see in the coming days. I love you dearly in Christ.

    Preach I fear for you. I really do, you know why? you have just cursed yourself by the hateful arrogance you have displayed and that which you wish on me, will turn on you. Your hatred for the Jews is disgusting as well 😦

    I hold onto this scripture promise the Lord gave me years ago when I met people like you and pray that you will repent ” friend” and will wait on the Lord to once again display His faithfulness to me 🙂

    Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    Preach just a quick FWI. I’ve lost all for the cause of Christ and as a young widow the Lord gave me this second promise for those that would come against me after my family / friends and all forsook me and have seen this play out in ways that case me to shudder. I actually deleted the rest of my comments as wanted to show you detailed events of how those that cursed me ended up ….well that’s better left unsaid.

    Is 41
    10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive [4] with thee shall perish. 12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought. 13 For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

    I beseech you preach…repent if you know what is good for you. I will BLESS you rather than curse you…that way I will apply the word of God 🙂

    I BLESS you preach and trust my God to have His way 🙂

    Rom 12:19 — Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord

    Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue [that] shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This [is] the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness [is] of me, saith the LORD.

    I don’t have the time to continue this with you as you distract me from what the Lord has called me to in ministry.

    Your cursing has actually blessed me 🙂

    Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven 🙂

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  40. The two witnesses are also described as the two lampstands and two olive trees that stand before the Lord of the whole earth.

    Rev. chapter 1:20. The mystery of the seven lampstands/the seven lampstands are the seven churches. So we see lampstands are associated with churches…and the two witnesses are two lampstands. Zechariah 4 explains the 2 olive trees and two lampstands as the two who are annointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.

    The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. Rev. 19:10

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  41. they will know we are christians by our Love! yes and amen to all of you posting the affirmatives in Christ Jesus. for all the promises of God in Him are yes and in Him amen, to the Glory of God by us. 2 cor 1:20. His precious promises to the israel of God-His Wife of the Covenant to whom He will be married again–and–us His Body-His Bride the Church–He is that Yes!!! He is our Amen!!! the Sure Mercies of david and the Grace that bought our Salvation–this is the Rest of God found in Jesus Alone. there comes a day for the jews to Rest in Jesus too–He will affirm them with His Yes for they as a nation will no longer be blind–just as we once were. so where is Mercy from you “preach”?………..perfect Love casts out fear-your words are full of fear and torment-&-add to that confusion. have you no Rest in Christ?

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  42. Agreed- the two witnesses will have a symbolic meaning in their ministry as it pertains the church and the nation of Israel. In Psalm 52- we also see David referred to personally a green olive tree. I don’t see any specific examples of lampstands or a lampstand that the text identifies as a person. I do see reference in Revelation 11 to fire out of their mouths, and to bringing plagues as often as they wish. I see no other text in scripture that suggests that the nation of israel or the church as a whole will be given the capability of bringing plagues on the people of the earth. I do see numerous examples of individual men, in the role of prophet being given the ability to call down fire from heaven, and pronounce plagues on those that would rebel against God. So – I’m not negating the possibility of the symbolic meaning behind the witnesses, but I’m suggesting that the text says there is that, and a literal meaning as well as it pertains to two men.

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  43. Amen Shelby.

    As soon as I have some time later today I would love to share a rebuke from the Lord years ago that only makes sence now, 15 yrs later. I pray that the Lord will use it for His glory alone and a oppertunity for Him to teach us the way.

    Love in Christ, Coll

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  46. You are very good. You can take a piece of Scripture and turn It into anything you want to proof. When Paul says in Romans very clearly that God will NEVER reject Israel, you say that we interpret straight forward Scripture wrong. And when Jesus rides into Jerusalem on a donkey, you say it means Israel is dead. It is funny.

    Sorry, I read the Bible. I so not add meaning to it.

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  47. Agreed with Vic – Preach I’d implore you again to read Romans 11 slowly, deliberately, prayerfully. If the plain sense makes sense, then make no other sense.

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  48. Sorry for not answering , I forgot to get email notification about this.

    I don’t mind if you copy and paste my stuff….do it as much as you wish.

    Blessings to ya.

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  49. Has anyone seen this book?
    http://www.christianpost.com/news/apocalyptic-author-seeks-to-clear-up-confusion-over-the-tribulation-72005/

    I clicked over the preview at Amazon and the author seems to be making a case for a Post trumpet, pre-wrath, pre-bowls rapture. I found it intriguing, though I”ve just skimmed the preview (first chapter or so) quickly, since she makes the same argument that is often made here that the pre-trib rapture view could leave a very unprepared church here on earth during a very difficult season.

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  50. To the one that has placed a curse on me and my household.

    We are UNDER the Blood of the Lamb friend 🙂

    Exd 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye [are]: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy [you], when I smite the land of Egypt.

    I know *this is a Hollywood depiction but it reminded me of what the Lord showed me in July last year and the FIVE SMOOTH stones for the body of Christ – for a time such as this

    1) Zechariah 4:6
    Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

    2) Revelation 12:11

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,

    3) and by the word of their testimony;

    4) and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Revelation 12:10-12

    5) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    Isaiah 55:10-12
    *

    Shelly sis,

    I lost all that I had written yesterday ( you can imagine my frustation ) and may just send this to Vic on e-mail. What say ye? Maybe the Lord is protecting what I wanted to share seeing the …wait I will remain silent 🙂

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  56. Too much leaving out so much of the old testament prophets and the new ones too, apostles’ teaching. Forgetting about the fullness of the gentiles, forgetting that Jacob received another blessing other than the blessing from Abraham, when he struggled and had his name changed

    The story appears in chapter 32 of Genesis, and chapter 12 of the Book of Hosea. In the text as we have it, the being with which Jacob wrestles is variously described as an angel, a man, or a god.
    His sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel, including Judah, still have much to come to with their God.

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  57. Just entered here to be notified of any other comments. Praying for all of you. A major metroplex in our country was hit hard today with tornadoes. Also being where my daughter, Jessica and my new baby Abby Lynn are at. Thanks be to God no one died. If you watch those twisters or have ever gone through one you will know that this was a miracle. Family all across the country and my christian family as well were praying all day. I will continue to pray for mercy on lives, but that many would wake up to the times we are in and see the prophecies.

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  58. http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/

    take a look at this posting and the videos
    my daughter lives in Arlington and my grandbaby Abby Lynn was in the town of Euless where the eye went right over there when I was watching TV

    Talk about getting my attention, my family and I went to our knees in prayer and have been throughout this day. As I said a miracle that no deaths have been reported so far and I pray none are found. Thanks for letting me rant a bit here

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  60. MrBaldy
    Please please explain a what is rubbish?
    If you do not say you are guilty of stone throwing without provocation or reason.
    If you are really one that loves Christ Jesus speak out or for ever hold your peace.

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  61. Now come on MrBaldy let’s be sincere declare what you are alluding to as being garbage and let us test it with scripture, shall we.
    I want to test you MrBaldy declare right now that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and say praise be his name for ever and ever.
    This will tell us who you give your allegiance to.

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  62. I think these verses will be fulfilled soon, and the TRUTH will be CONFIRMED and OBEYED.

    Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

    16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

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  63. What are you trying to proof Preach? Even satan can say it. You are misinterpreting Scripture again. Yes, you are.

    Mr Baldy, I let this run for a while to show people how deceived many people are and how some even come, saying Jesus is the Christ and STILL deceive many. It get so clear to me how big the deception will get in the end times. The warnings of Jesus are crystal clear.

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  64. Shorttribber yes amen and amen, but …. the key is?

    Speaking in ? l o v e !

    Edifying in? l o v e !

    Not much of that been goin on right!!

    Curses, pride, contention, division , arrogance all of which I last checked were not from the WISDOM from above right!! that my friend is what concerns me.

    Short would you please share with us your thoughts on the two witnesses and the significance of understanding the ” candlesticks” and the oil that feeds them 🙂

    The testimony of the TWO- the HOLY SPIRIT and the WORD OF GOD 🙂

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  65. Vic I pray that the Lord will protect us from what I believe is the most dangerous part of the great falling away and the strong delusion in these end of end times.

    This morning my spirit was so grieved as I read how the ( NAR) is working behind the scenes to promote a ” THIRD REVIVAL” of which I humbly believe is NOT from the Spirit of Christ but a cage of foul birds and deceptive lies to usher in the false ” christ”. Wow where has the gift of discernement gone? So sad to witness how the wool is being pulled over the eyes of so many.

    These “self proclaimed apostles and prophet’s ” mission is to UNITE all of us in this KINGDOM NOW FALSE THEOLOGY . This KNEE refuse to bend to ANY other than Christ and have personally come up against this spirit most of my walk with Christ , yet have seen the Lord vindicate in ways that boggle my mind 🙂

    NO MAN shall have DOMINION over the body of Christ as we OBEY only ONE…..the Lord Jesus Christ amen!

    Sorry for the vent 🙂 but you know why I take this so personally 🙂

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  66. Hisown quote
    “Short would you please share with us your thoughts on the two witnesses and the significance of understanding the ” candlesticks” and the oil that feeds them”
    I just can only say my opinion because I’m just not sure yet…..soon we should know I feel.
    It’s strongly related to Joshua and Zerrubabel. These are the TWO and may represent the Jesus/Joshua/Head and Zerrubabel/Meaning(Born in Babel)/the Body and IS/WILL BE……OUR TESTIMONY……..Jesus(Head) AND Church(Body).
    Maybe 144,000 and the Church……I don’t think there will be two single personages.
    Holy Spirit (oil) The Word is the Fire of the Lamp it seems to me.

    “Speaking in ? l o v e !

    Edifying in? l o v e !”

    Key….Yes, everything out side of this is earthly and not from God.

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  67. Stop wasting your time PREACH. They are not here to learn, but to remain ignorant. His people perish for lack of Knowledge. Wicked Wickus is a coward, and arab Christian Hater

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  68. Speaking of false theology, I have banned Mr Preachthegospel from this site. I can not see any reason why he must use this platform to spread his nonsense and curse people any longer. And Mr Preach, if you read this, please take the following seriously:

    THE WORD OF GOD
    Read it AS IT IS WRITTEN
    Believe it AS IT IS WRITTEN
    Do it AS IT IS WRITTEN
    And you will receive the Kingdom of God AS IT IS WRITTEN.

    Please do not add or take away from what God has said.

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  69. It is really too bad that wordpress doesn’t allow blog administrators to view the IP address information of posters their blogs. I’m betting Preach and Davis have the same IP (or at least are on the same subnet since the end of the IP address often changes on most public ISPs).

    For preach and any others that are hear to preach some aberrent distortion of the gospel: We don’t hate you, we will continue to pray for you
    No one here hates any ethnicity (they would not be tolerated here)
    No one here hates the adherents of any other faith (though we may rightly call out their faith as the work of Satan)

    Suggestion to others that may be watching, but not posting:
    If you have an observation to make about the bible, biblical prophecy, current events or what we are to do while wait for the return of Jesus- feel free to share it. Expect though there there at least a couple dozen of us here that will search the scriptures to see if what you are saying is true. If one of us posts an idea or observation that contradicts scripture, or that some of us have concerns about – we will answer lovingly, and truthfully. If we don’t know- I’ve seen many times, those here say – we don’t know. If you argue in support of a well-known heresy, expect it to be pointed out.

    I would suggest – testing your ideas against scripture before sharing. Ask questions if you have an idea but are not sure – we love the unanswered question, since it gives us a task that will drive us back into the scriptures. It gives us good work to do.

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  70. Yes, amen to that. But most of all, thank you for your great idea my friend. I can check the IP of the posters. This is definitively a one man show, some sick psycho who has nothing to do but spam. Here are my findings:

    Shirley Temple/Kenneth Colon:
    http://shirleytemplecloseouts@yahoo.com/
    41.18.31.71
    24.193.158.83 (Perfect match of Davis)

    Davis:
    kiddwee@aol.com
    24.193.158.83
    208.253.155.193

    Preach:
    101.119.15.186
    120.20.63.44
    60.241.227.22

    Bless you Mr Sheep.

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  72. 🙂 Okay, I don’t wanna bore you, but I had a great laugh just now. I mailed Scott, Dave, Brian and Constance with this info as this Davis and Shirley characters also mailed them with hate mail. I cc’d Davis in to show him that he is exposed. Well, got 3 x hate mail in 2 minutes from him telling me how wrong I am with a lot of the usual cursing. I then decided to mail Shirley whom I got mail from a few hours ago. But lo and behold, I got a response from Yahoo that the account does not exist.

    Thanks Justasheep. With your help we have rid ourselves from these trolls.

    Praise the Lord!!!

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  73. Brother Shorty 🙂

    You not sure …yet… well nor am I just yet 🙂

    What is it that trigger’s off the 42 month testiomey.

    1) The casting out of Satan – Is 14.
    2) The AOD.
    3) Sudden destruction.
    4) Man of sin being revealed, given his power from the Beast System?
    5) All of the above . 🙂

    No seriously , the Lord led me to another verse today that blew me away. I would love to share that and seek your understanding on it as well.

    Agape in Christ.

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  75. Oh by the way….answer to the above is #5 (all of the above….and other things too)
    I’ll share what the other things are later when I have a little more time….time pinch tonight

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  76. Sis I missed this comment of your’s as I tried to find the thread where I had asked Shortribber to help me with a few scriptures the Lord led me to a few days ago. So may I ask that to him here first then ask you a quick question as well 🙂

    Brother Shorty.

    Please, before anybody stones me i am NOT preaching or believe that we have replaced Isreal and only seek clarification on these scriptures the Lord has been calling me to study.

    Isa 65:1 — I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

    The Holy Spirit prompted me to underline the words :

    SEED OF JACOB.

    JUDAH INHERITOR.

    JERUSALEM CREATED A REJOICING.

    Isa 65:9 — And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

    Isa 65:18 — But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

    Isa 65:23 — They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

    Isa 49:6 — And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayestbe my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    Mal 3:4 — Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

    Mal 3:6 — For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Sis by what you posted do you believe we are the two witnesses? and if so how and when did you come to this understanding.

    Agape

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  77. Brother Shorty,
    You said ” Oh by the way….answer to the above is #5 (all of the above….and other things too)
    I’ll share what the other things are later when I have a little more time….time pinch tonight”

    Well I finally found this comment and actually responded a few lines up 🙂
    Would you please reply to this by posting at the bottom of this thread as I tend to miss out ( as I did with Shelly’s comment)

    Thank-you kindly in advance.

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  78. Hi sis, I don’t know for certain that we are the two witnesses as opposed to two individual people representing the candlesticks/churches. My passion is the 144,000 and the bride of Christ… God has given me a couple visions and a couple dreams about the bride and the 144,000 leading me to want to learn as much as I can about them.

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