Who is Gog/Magog?

The popular view (and my personal view) is that Gog is the leader of Magog (Russia). I found some interesting Bible maps that shows it differently. See what you think.

  IVP Atlas of Bible history.

 The new Moody atlas of the Bible

 The Holman Bible atlas

 Zondervan atlas of the Bible

 Harper Collins atlas of Bible history

 ESV Bible atlas

 Baker’s Bible atlas

 The Macmillan Bible atlas

 IVP New Bible atlas

So if you see an invasion of Israel and the Russians are not involved, then Gog and Magog is not Russia.

Did anyone ever wonder if Ps 83 is a prophecy or just a prayer for protection? And if it is a prophecy, is it a stand alone war or is it just the Gog/Magog invasion seen from a different perspective?


53 thoughts on “Who is Gog/Magog?

  1. Funny you should ask that question… I was thinking the same… Psalm 83 sounds to me like a prayer for protection, not necessarily a stand alone war…


  2. I’ve never been totally convinced that Ps 83 is a prophecy about the end times. The other prophecies about end times can clearly be seen as it is direct prophecies from the prophets, Jesus and the apostles, you know, “Thus sayeth the Lord” words. But when I read Ps 83 I just see a prayer to God for protection against Israel’s enemies.


  3. Psalm 83

    1Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.

    2For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.

    3They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
    Psalm 83

    1Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
    2For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
    3They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
    4They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
    5For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
    6The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
    7Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
    8Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

    Well this one is not certain to me either about being a prophecy, but these same enemies are the ones Israel regathered today are still facing that is for sure. And they are saying the exact same things.

    I was always taught that Gog/Magog was Russia as well, but we cannot certain, however this map of what is now Turkey I think, certainly seems to be turning against Israel, and as well Iran is backed by Russia and so is Syria.

    And as well, Israel on the day it was declared an independent nation on May 14th 1948 and was immediately attacked by all these surrounding nations mentioned here in Psalm 83 and then again in 1967, and Israel won both wars.
    They also gained the land that the stupid world now chooses to call the occupied territories and now the world is calling for Israel to give back the land they gained, which protects their borders.

    I sure would love to see what America would do if England came over and started demanding the land that the United States won in the wars fought for their independence. Yeah right, I can see that we would all vote to give it all back to the crown of England.

    Sorry I got a bit off topic here. Thanks Vic for posting.

    And a lot to consider and keep studying and watching and praying daily.


  4. thanks for posting vic. glad things are going well for you even if very busy. if it concerns (pertains) to us then it concerns Him too!..for He is working in your circumstances and will use you mightily (just He does here!) right where He has placed you (so we are glad to pray for you). i agree with roma’s statement–israel’s enemies are saying the same things today–war is in their hearts. the hate will only increase until God steps in to the situation-that we know! i believe we will soon see what God does with these passages that are being quoted. much on the horizon…………


  5. You know Vic, I don’t necessarily see Psalm 83 as a war….as you say it could be more about God’s protection….just my two cents.

    It’s good to see you posting again, I hope life has slowed down a bit for you 😉


  6. I called in to a radio show last night where an author had written a book about the middle east in prophecy – he was firmly pre-trib and had typical, what I think are sloppy assumptions about ezekiel 38 and 39. When the host asked him about a suggestion that kay arthur made about using ezekiel 36-37 to help with understanding 38-39. He totally missed on answering this at all. Since he had also mentioned a reborn roman empire – when I called I asked him if he was familiar with the WEU, the ten, the modified brussels treaty etc – his answer was “I hadn’t considered that” and he continued on with his view on the Ten as some yet future 10 kings that will arise and hand power to the 11th.

    Oh well. It seems the world is still blind to even consider what may be happening. I agree – so many see psalm 83 as a prophecy, but I can see how it could be Israel crying out to God as she has in other scriptures to defeat her enemies. I don’t see anywhere in the text there where God has said, thus saith the Lord, or as it will be in the last days or any other clear marker in the text. Since there seems to be so little rigor in looking at the text by so many, I would hope here that we would continue to challenge each other as we have developed the habit of doing to really look at what the text says, to dig into the context and the original words in their original language.


  7. One other thought I forgot to mention above- all the names in this text, are very early in post-flood history being 1-2 generations after Noah. I would think given that the population of the earth would be so small then that it would be very challenging to make any very certain assumptions about where the descendants of Magog, Tubal, Meschech, Togarmah etc have settled. I do agree that it appears there is a quite a bit of evidence in antiquity that the societies they founded are concentrated in the area that is now Turkey, Armenia and Georgia. I’ve been looking online to see if I can find any other archaelogical evidence that would provide good evidence of other areas, but so far have found none. I do find it interesting that the list seems to be a partial list – since there is also mentioned “Beth Togarmah from the uttermost parts of the North with all his hordes – many peoples are with you” This would imply that the names mentioned are certainly there, but the text allows for others particularly from the North to join in. So I guess I still see Russia as being likely to be involved, but not required by the text. With what is going on in Turkey lately – it really seems like they may want to cement their place as a leader in the muslim world. The continuing tension they have with Iran puzzles me from a prophetic standpoint – perhaps in the crisis they form a firmer alliance against Israel. I guess anything is possible. I also think it’s interesting that Cush is mentioned specifically – doing research on ancient Cush, many just assume ethiopia – I find when you dig deeper there is much dispute about this assumption, that cush and cushites were also assumed to be an asiatic people in other texts – and there was a significant population across the red sea from ethiopia – in the southern arabian peninsula – which today is Yemen. I’m sure many here noticed that yesterday, as a result of the so-called “Arab Spring” Yemen had its first presidential election in many years- but the only candidate was the right hand man of the deposed leader. I don’t think that story is going to have a happy stable ending, and I’d keep my eye on Yemen as it relates to fulfillment of prophecies where Cush is called out by name.


  8. Nice Mr Sheep 🙂

    I would have loved to have heard the”tone” of the “I hadn’t considered that” comment myself , but from what I perceive, your ” oh well” response and them being blind only solidifies my own frustrations in a few scriptures the Lord led me to txt to a pastor yesterday.

    My biggest frustration ( if you can call it that ) is that there seems to be a famine in the land…a famine to Gods Word. One can quote a gazillion scriptures yet there seems to be this prideful defiance of not receiving or applying it!!


    Rev 3:17 — Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    Mar 10:25 — It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    Amo 8:11 — Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

    Wonder if the author would be willing to give his books away? would that not be just wonderful…can you imagine…..nah ain’t happenin!


  9. i do notice many times in scripture that things that have passed on before can have another go ’round. history tells us many things today of the prophecies have been foreshadowed or happened also as a “dry run” already that will happen again but more ramped up to finish the “transgression” of somethings and someones—or in the case of foreshadows of deliverance a completeness in a final finish such as what the rapture will be for instance (and israel will know finally who their Messiah is!) it is all for our edifying as to how to pray and what to keep our eyes upon-to watch!-situations all around us in this world. this is why i believe-like many of you-something is going to soon happen with all the “players” in these matters because God is coming to restore all things. (the jury is still out as to exactly when and in the exact order!)….but anyone truly looking can see that this world has been running it’s course in evil which has only increased-but will come to it’s end-praise God!!! He will judge the nations—-but still restrains to show Mercy even yet to those who hate His people. the list of nations mentioned in psalm 83-are closest neighbors geographically if i am understanding who these peoples are & are actively seeking israel’s destruction right now with russia/china/iran backing–arsenals of weapons cocked and ready-pointed directly at God’s people…………but hey–i come to this site to learn and everyones’ input helps very much so thanks to all of you!


  10. Ichabod indeed – sadly. It seems the more we pursue the desires of our flesh the more we our hearts are hardened to God’s word (I see this in myself as well). Too many of our churches, and our christians who have abandoned the church because it was populated with imperfect sinners are being hardened by their own attachment to wealth, honor, prestige, man-pleasing, “church growth”, sowing to the flesh – on and on. We should all have the courage to confront one another where we are found to be in sin – it is the only loving thing to do to keep our hearts from growing hard and cold.


  11. found this very interesting——————–Psalm 83:13-15 and Isaiah 17:13 use the same six Hebrew words of galgal, paniym, ruach, har, radaph, and suphah as comparatively parenthesized below. This suggests a connection between the prophecies of Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17.

    Psalm 83 13-15 “O my God, make them like the whirling dust, (galgal) Like the chaff before (paniym) the wind! (ruach) As the fire burns the woods, And as the flame sets the mountains (har) on fire, So pursue (radaph) them with Your tempest, And frighten them with Your storm. (suphah)

    Isaiah 17:13 “The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters; But God will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased (radaph) like the chaff of the mountains (har) before (paniym) the wind, (ruach) Like a rolling (galgal) thing before (paniym) the whirlwind. (suphah)

    http://www.prophecydepot.net/2011/the-burden-against-damascus/Jeremiah 49:24-27

    Damascus has grown feeble;
    She turns to flee,
    And fear has seized her.
    Anguish and sorrows have taken her like a woman in labor.
    25 Why is the city of praise not deserted, the city of My joy?
    26 Therefore her young men shall fall in her streets,
    And all the men of war shall be cut off in that day,” says the LORD of hosts.
    27 “ I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus,
    And it shall consume the palaces of Ben-Hadad.”[a]

    Prophecy Sign: “Isaiah 17:1 “The burden against Damascus.
    “ Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,
    And it will be a ruinous heap.”

    Isaiah 17:9 – “In that day his strong cities will be as a forsaken bough And an uppermost branch, Which they left because of the children of Israel; And there will be desolation”.

    Isaiah 17:14 We see the over night destruction of Damascus “Then behold, at eventide, trouble! And before the morning, he is no more. This is the portion of those who plunder us, And the lot of those who rob us.

    Take a good look at these prophecies concerning Syria. These warnings from God only found in the Bible tell us that Syria will be wiped out. We know this war will be bad because Damascus will cease from being a city, and as the Word of God says, “it will be a ruinous heap”. The question is when will this happen? Is there anything found in the Word that will point to when this will occur? All you do is have to read Psalm 83. This is a warning that the nations that border Israel will go to war against Israel. If you read the Psalm you will learn that Syria is one of the nations who will attack Israel with their Arab brothers. This leads us to ask this question. Will Syria be wiped out before the Psalm 83 war takes place? Knowing that Syria is involved in the Psalm 83 war I can’t see any way how Syria can be wiped

    out before the Psalms war begins.

    ….. I can’t tell you for sure exactly how this will happen, all I know is that the end result will be Syria will be destroyed, the Arabs will lose another war against Israel like they did in May of 1948, again in 1967, and again in 1973. As it stands right now, many world leaders are calling for Assad to step down from office. It is clear that the handwriting is on the wall, Syria is taking steps right now that will help fulfill the Psalm war prophecy.

    (so……………………………..sounds like war to me—-and the events in damascus currently look like it’s getting set up for a “major intervention”(destruction)–by whom exaactly i am not sure. russia clearly has an interest in syria (naval ports there) and if something happens to them i think based on these scriptures it might just be the lure-the hook-that brings from the north( gog & company)–russia-assuming it is them-ez 38-39 (along w/china/iran) into yet another conflict– and final war?)



  12. Sorry guys but I need to get this out ! But what’s with all the THUMBS DOWN on the posts? like seriously!!!

    Tares? provocateurs? or just plain cowards?

    You toucha my family, I smacka your face..KAPISH!! Sorry I needed the laugh…even if it’s at my own silliness!! LOL

    Love you guys 🙂


  13. I call this the ‘6-hour war’ in my book, ‘The Whore and Her Mother’ (which you CAN read for FREE – first 8 chapters – via our website). The book is mostly about Mega-Babylon, the 6-hour war and tyhe ingathering (and salvation) of the Israelite tribes – but it also covers other prophetic topics and what our response as believers should be. {:-{>


  14. Hi Raymond 🙂

    Could you please be so kind as to direct me to the 8 free chapters so I am able to read these. I must be missing the ” click here button ” LOL.

    Thank’s in advance.


  15. Well like I said, I never noticed them being there before now. LOL, and looks like a lot of thumbs down now are on here. When you first mentioned I looked and saw that I and someone else who defended Israel now, Andre it was.

    But now I see that a lot of posts got some thumbs down, so who knows. and like I said, I would never want to use them anyways.


  16. I tend to ignore the thumbs downs, but am encouraged by thumbs up and comments on things I think are important to post. I wish I had more time to post to be an encouragement to many of the things my brothers and sister have posted here. I am usually in and out of this site really quicky so when I post it’s usually typing feverishly to get it done and get back to other things I also need to be doing. Adding a thumbs up is a quick way to say I agree with your posts. I will say that Vic, Hisown, Roma, Andre, Berry, Baldy, Truth and many others are posting great observations here regularly. Lets keep at it – and ignore the occasional thumbs down now and then. If I post something really poorly thought out or twisting scripture, please do feel free to provide corrective advice.


  17. Amen Mr Sheep 🙂

    The beauty of our fellowship is that IF there is at any one point where scripture is being ” twisted ” as you say, there would be a kind , loving, private e-mail of reproof sent……up and till now I know of none 🙂 I found the silence of the thumbs down to be cowardly!

    Please forgive me for the thumbs down observation as there was nothing in those posts that ” deserved” that and my flesh reacted ! Kapish?

    I know that God’s word expresses there will be a massive betrayal and many have been subjected to that recently but it feels as if we are being ” pressed” on every side lately.

    2Cr 4:1 — Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

    2Cr 4:7 — But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


  18. My screen doesn’t show any thumbs period – up or down. I’m enjoying this discussion so I am glad I couldn’t see them!


  19. Vic,

    Thanks for posting this. Psalms 83 doesn’t appear to be a war to me as well. I find it interesting that the maps that you have posted are indeed Turkey. Now this brings an interesting twist to the coming Antichrist theory – although I don’t believe for one minute that the coming Antichrist even fits the bill of what Joel Richardson has written about.

    Concerning the coming Antichrist……well, as you know, I don’t believe that there will be two end time players. Scripture only speaks of one in my opinion. (I am referring to Revelation 13). I have just read 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 – which discusses “The Man of Lawlessness”. Reading verse 9-10, which states:

    “The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

    The verses in this Scripture works in harmony with what is described in Revelation 13 – it speaks of the coming Antichrist performing these “false signs” and not a False Prophet. The point that I would like to make is that it is the coming Antichrist who will be the lone player in the last days – and not a “False Prophet”. I believe that he is called a false prophet, because of the great deception that he will perform, by way of Satan. I believe that this is proven in verse 9 of 2 Thessalonians 2.

    I believe that recognizing that there is a possibility that there is only ONE end time player is so very important, that I am requesting that you all help me in this Study. I’m not trying to convince anyone to change their mind on how they interpret Scripture, I would just like to know the truth – especially since we have a 7 year confirmed covenant with many, by way of the ENP(I).

    I also believe that many are missing this “possibility” – and that we may be closer to the Return of the Lord, than may realize. If Revelation 13 is speaking of a Beast Empire, and the Antichrist that will control it, then it appears as if all of this is being set up, even as we communicate. We have many who are looking for a Temple, and a time of peace, and two very powerful political players to rise to power – when Scripture only speaks of one man (in my very humble opinion), and most are even looking to see if a 7 year “peace treaty” with Israel will come to fruition, when the possibility exists that it is the ENP(I).

    In closing, if anyone has a different opinion, please feel free to continue this, as I feel strongly that we are right at the threshold of the Return of Christ.



  20. Guys…..Ladies,

    You are not going to believe this. After I posed my question to you all I later Googled my question on whether or not the False Prophet is the same as the coming Antichrist.
    The Lord has been giving me this revelation for quite some time, but I never really began a study on it. “Mathieu” (one one the Members here) emailed me questioning my thoughts on why I felt this way – approximately a week ago. I couldn’t let this thought go, so after I posed my question, I began to look into it.

    I came across the Rapture Ready web-site. After I read the article, it completely blew me away. All I can say is that the Lord confirms things.

    Here is the Link: http://raptureready.com/featured/gillette/false-prophet.html

    The Author of the article is speaking of exactly what I have been trying to communicate. I had no idea that I wasn’t alone in my thinking.

    Please tell me what you guys think.


  21. Hi Berryblueberry,

    Thanks for responding. I am just so excited about finding that article, and the fact that I believe that God has sent confirmation to me, that I can’t even sleep.

    This author has done such a great job in articulating the facts; supported with Scripture -that it no doubt gives huge credibility to the ENP(I) theory. I have no idea who Britt Gillette is, but it just simply amazed me that I wasn’t alone in thinking that the False Prophet is none other than the coming Antichrist.

    Guys, I’m not dogmatic about this……but I do NOT believe that it was a coincidence that this topic came up, and the article was found.

    Things may very well play out in such a way that will cause many of us to re-visit what we’ve traditionally been taught.


  22. Thank-you Mr Baldy for the post and the affirmation you were seeking the Lord on. I agree!
    I agree with these *two powerful paragraphs as they affirm what the Lord has been leading us too in His word on THE timing when Satan is finally cast out (and there was no more place found for him- the start of the 42 month trib – accompanied by a devastating blow? ) and the understanding of the AOD and why this causes those in Judea to flee. Satan is spitting mad as he knows he’s only been given 42 months to deceive as many as he is able 😦

    *He Speaks with the Voice of a Dragon- Knowing that the Antichrist is the human embodiment of Satan, the bible gives us a clear identification of the second beast:

    “Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth. He had two horns like those of a lamb, and he spoke with the voice of a dragon.” Revelation 13:11 (NLT)

    It’s not by mere coincidence that this beast speaks with the voice of a dragon. The same dragon appears in Chapter 12, and there is no mistaking his identity:

    “This great dragon – the ancient serpent called the Devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world – was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.” Revelation 12:9 (NLT)

    Following a great war in heaven, Satan is thrown to the earth in defeat where he knows that he has little time before Christ returns to establish his Millennial Kingdom. This event occurs at the mid-point of the tribulation:

    “Rejoice, O heavens! And you who live in the heavens, rejoice! But terror will come on the earth and the sea. For the Devil has come down to you in great anger, and he knows that he has little time.” Revelation 12:12 (NLT)

    The mid-point of the tribulation, when Satan comes to reside on earth, is also when the Antichrist commits the “abomination of desolation” spoken of by Jesus and the prophet Daniel.

    *For the tribulation saints, a firm understanding of the distinction between these two beasts is of paramount importance. It will aid them in the proper identification of the Antichrist, as well as provide them with an invaluable tool for evangelism as they point out the similarities between the events of Revelation 13 and the events of their time. As such, we should do everything in our power to insure that their interpretation of the Word of God is based solely on truth and not on doctrines invented by man.


  23. Hi Hisown, (Colleen)

    I knew that you would respond. I have a new computer now, and the computer store did not transfer my contacts, when I purchased this new PC from them. I was able to extract Vic’s and Scott’s (Born to Watch) information – from old information, and I wanted to include you on this information to get your insight as well, as you were a part of our 70th week study, as well. I think that I have your email address, but I’m not absolutely sure.(Please email me whenever you get the time).

    Scripture is very clear that in the time of the end, that the wise will understand. (Daniel 12:9-10) I am in no way saying that any of us are so “wise” that we have all the answers; but I must say that it is truly incredible how all of this is certainly coming together – and it makes absolute sense.

    If any fellow Watchers have an rebuttal to this discussion – I certainly welcome your response(s). Please – as Scripture is of no private interpretation. At the end of the day, all that matters is that we discover the TRUTH.


  24. Hello again Mr Baldy.

    You have no idea how you have blessed me. I praise the Lord for counting us worthy as we offer Him all the praise and adoration for His unwavering, uncompromising , never returning void “WORD” that has been the foundation of all our fellowship and learning together over the years.

    The most beautiful of it all is the passion and desire we all have to grow deeper and to draw closer to the One we love more than our own lives.That my brother is why this verse is most applicable 🙂

    Mal 3:16 — Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

    I praise God that the Lord is so gratuitous as He reveals these things a little at a time. Can you imagine if He had to show us ( those things that were sealed ) all at once how we would respond? I know that at times it has been so grievous to come to the deeper understanding that it was sweet to the mouth, yet bitter to the tummy.

    I would love to discuss this openly and in more depth, the scripture affirmations, the warnings from the Holy Spirit on the* two State solution, the *ENPI and the awesome way in which the Lord is directing.

    It all started on the 30th March 2003 when the Lord affirmed Isaiah – Chapter 47 – for the ROAD MAP TO PEACE ( ABOMINATION ) We have all witnessed the ramifications and consequences of this “push” , yet many defiantly refuse to acknowledge that judgement is here !

    Isa 47:6 — I was wroth with my people, I have polluted mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke.

    Isa 47:7 — And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.

    *The achievement of lasting peace in the Middle East is a central aim of the EU, whose main objective is a two-State solution leading to a final and comprehensive settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on implementation of the Road Map, with Israel and a democratic, viable, peaceful and sovereign Palestinian State living side-by-side in peace within secure and recognised borders and enjoying normal relations with their neighbours.

    I will re-send you the study to your e-mail and look forward to how the Lord is going to use this for His glory alone.

    We love and appreciate you Mr Baldy. We don’t even know your name over all these years, but that’s ok…we will ask the Lord in eternity to introduce us to the “Mr Boldy”..Tsk tsk 🙂


  25. Pro 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
    Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

    Psa 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
    Psa 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
    Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.
    Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

    Pro 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
    Pro 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
    Pro 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
    Pro 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
    Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
    Pro 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
    Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Pro 1:8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
    Pro 1:9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.

    Thanks to all here, I will be reading again and checking this all out along with you fellow believers and watchers. I long for and love the soon appearing of our Lord and Savior.
    Which is why our faith will get us through whatever comes on this earth. I pray for all those believers in the many places where there is no freedom to even be a christian believer.


  26. I can say with just a quick thinking on this one, that for sure the first beast could be the last kingdom, the ten toed iron and clay, represented in the book of Daniel for sure. The revived Roman Empire as it proceeds out of the two legged iron kindgom of the Romans, where some still remain. I have thought this a long time, that the statue in Daniel shows that the entire Roman Kingdom did not actually go completely away. Just a thought on that one. As this beast is described with the ten horns.

    Anyway thanks a lot Mr Baldy for bringing this one up and we can discuss here and share. Glad you got your computer and are up and running here again.


  27. I would not worry to much about rumors of wars, as Jesus Christ instructed us.
    If its God’s will He will never allow the middle east to boil over into a nuclear conflict where many civilians will be killed and the land poisoned.
    If it is God’s will He will reign in His terror through ecological disasters that will render the combative countries immobilized because they will be busy burying their dead in a state emergency beyond comprehension.
    This will force the nations embroiled in this conflict to feel sympathy for one another’s loses and may even deter their intention for a full scale war.
    I’m praying that the hand of God restructures the land mass, letting the inhabitants of the world know who is the boss and who is running the things.
    Anyway having said all this I do not believe in man starting the conflict, I believe that God is going to start the conflict against man’s kingdoms, by reigning in His terror to recompense what is owed to him.
    I am looking forward to that with joy to see the faces of those who barrack for which ever nation i coudn’t care less and I will shout on top of my voice, hallelujah hallelujah hallelujah the day of the Lord is here.


  28. Hi All,

    I guess it has been a few years since we’ve been fellow-shipping together, and I have never revealed my real name. I have been a bit reluctant about it because of the job that I do, and I know first hand how serious identity theft is. I don’t know if you all are aware of it, but even Google has decided to record all of the places that you visit while on the Internet. To my understanding they originally targeted business advertisers for the big corporations, but now they will begin to track the places that the common web surfer goes as well. The bad guys out there have really gotten clever. They even go through your trash to obtain information from you, that the common person really isn’t aware of. Be careful and protect yourselves by shredding anything with your name on it.

    Roma, I have been posting at fulfilled prophecy – while at work. I know it might get me in trouble, but I took the chance anyway, and I normally try to keep it somewhat limited. I was debating, so I wanted to keep my time limited to one site. But now I have my spanking brand new PC at home.

    Now, concerning the topic………..

    Guys, I am convinced that the 1st Beast of Revelation is an Empire. There are a few things that we must consider if this is true. I believe that we have to look very hard at the ENP(I) theory, and how all of this fits into the final week – as things may be a lot different than we expect. This is to include how the Temple fits in, the A0D, the Two Witnesses, and how the coming Antichrist is to be revealed.

    I was at church, and the Pastor mentioned just a bit about the coming persecution, and how we should be prepared for it. Most churches don’t talk about End Times, but he briefly mentioned how the “Police” could come in and demand that we deny Christ – and either arrest us, or take our lives if we refuse. Some of you know that I am a cop, and when he mentioned this, this made me think deeply. I can say without fear of contradiction that I would give up my profession in a heart beat if I ever saw it leaning in that direction. I would never participate in the demise of a fellow believer, and I would definitely be prepared to give my life. Jesus taught that when the A0D happened, that there would be Great Tribulation to follow – in so much as a time like this will be so bad, that if the days aren’t shortened, no flesh will be saved. During the Great Tribulation, I don’t that that America will be immune to taking Christians into custody, and/or killing them for their belief. I know that’s hard to believe for some, but count on it.

    I believe that we should prepare for persecution. I have begun to read “Fox’s Book of Martyrs”. This is an amazing book. After reading how followers of Christ were persecuted for their belief, I really don’t see how anyone could believe that we won’t either be tested, or suffer to some degree as well. Charles Cooper also has a book out called “Fight, Flight, or Faith: How to Survive the Great Tribulation”. It’s been some time since I read Cooper’s book, but in it – as I recall, I believe that he spoke against both “Fighting” and “Flight”. Well, not to be argumentative, but I’m gonna be one fighting christian – while I’m running.

    In closing…..Hisown, my real name is Tony. It is the name that I was born with. Not Anthony, or Antonio, just plain Tony. (LOL). Everyone calls me Baldy – to include my wife. So now that you know my real name….keep it a secret. (LOL)


  29. Hey Tonie seeing we ‘re all on a first name basis here, may I call you Kojak? Kapish?LOL

    I’m sorry guys ( to get off topic ) but I was reading this to my love and we both burst out laughing as we said it spontaneously…..yeah it fits——!!!

    My tummy hurts ….laughter is medicine to the soul that’s fer sure!

    Ok that’s it time to get serious again 🙂

    Which reminds me I covet all your prayers for salvation for a precious 77 yr old Italian ( one of the wealthiest men I have met in my life) that the Lord placed in our lives almost two years ago. He is a widower and being taken advantage of which brings the righteous anger out of me as it brought back the memories of my own widowhood at the ripe ( old ) age of 29 😦 I pray that the Lord will save him soon and his eyes will be opened – please pray for Papito.


  30. Mr Baldy you hit the nail on the head –

    You said’

    “we must consider if this is true. I believe that we have to look very hard at the ENP(I) theory, and how all of this fits into the final week – as things may be a lot different than we expect. This is to include how the Temple fits in, the A0D, the Two Witnesses, and how the coming Antichrist is to be revealed. ”

    Exactly !

    Three simple questions that we all need to seek the Lord on to verify in our spirit man.

    1) Temple= Naos ?

    2) AOD- Dividing of East Jerusalem and the Road Map to ” peace” re- ENPI ?

    3) The two ” olive lampstands ” ? Re- Zechariah 4:14. in asking if these are the same “lampstands” in Revelation 1:20 ?

    The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    I love a great mystery 🙂

    No stoning Coll allowed 🙂


  31. One more question that needs to be asked as noted by Mr B.

    What is it that causes the AC to be revealed?

    1) The final out-casting ( of satan ) where hell is MOVED to meet him ? – which many will ask ” {Is} this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; Isaiah 14.

    2) The surrounding of / and division of East Jerusalem ( involving NATO forces?)

    3) The fall of Damascus ?

    4) The destroying Wind and the judgment on Mystery Babylon?

    Please know that by my asking /sharing it helps me in my studies as well as seeking the Lord in much more prayer 🙂


  32. Isaiah 14:27 “For the LORD of host hath purposed,and who shall disannul it?,
    and HIS hand is stretched out,and who shall turn it back!”

    It amazing to watch as the LORD’S plan unfolds and comes to fruition!


  33. In agreement with all of the above – but since we are looking for what might mark the revealing of the man of sin, aka the second beast. Am I alone in reading Daniel 12:11 as the sacrifice is taken away, there are 1290 days, the AoD?

    One of the translations that really got me wondering about this is the youngs literal translation – and when I stepped through it word by word in he hebrew (though I’m not hebrew scholar).

    and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual sacrifice, and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, are days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety. Daniel 12:11 Young’s Literal Translation

    Other markers to watch for then would be the two witnesses, since we know they prophesy for 1260 days.

    Something I’m thinking about – is that with some of these items of prophecy it would seem we are not be certain. Regarding a pre-wrath rapture – I know I favor that but we are also told the lord may come at any time (imminence) so maybe we are not meant to be certain. Regarding the timing of the AoD – the beginning of the Great Tribulation, one of the last things the AC does before the war of armageddon. I just don’t think we may be ever able to know with absolute certainty. Even with that though, and because that we keep trusting God even though we don’t know for certain what comes next – although as we see more and more of these things that fit with prophecy we know that the time for our Savior’s return draws near.

    As we are for Pastor Youcef in Iran now – keep praying that we’ll all be strong and encouraged, and that we’d be a help to one another and those around us the ones that know Jesus, but are ignoring what is coming and the ones that don’t know Jesus yet, or know how short the time remaining is.

    Justasheep – aka Rob


  34. Hi Justasheep,

    You wrote: ” Am I alone in reading Daniel 12:11 as the sacrifice is taken away, there are 1290 days, the AoD?”

    I think that I understand your question.

    Some time ago, Scott of (Born to Watch), Wickus, Hisown, and I began to compare notes concerning the events of the 70th week and how it fit into the timing of when the “Covenant with Many” was confirmed. I think that we were all in agreement that the 70th week, and the confirming of the “Covenant with Many” may actually “overlap”.

    This understanding is not to create new eschatology in order to make the ENP(I) theory fit, but to take what is written in Scripture, and compare it to what is actually happening right before our very eyes.

    You ask a great question….

    You may find this shocking , but if we were to consider that the A0D is the actual starting point of the 70th week; then the 1, 290 day and 1,335 day time periods mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12 make sense, as the 70th, or final week continues into the Millennial Reign of Christ; and includes the time that Satan is “let loose for a little season”, and concludes at the time the rebellious Nations gather to attack in the final Gog/Magog war. (Revelation 20:7-10) Remember that the 1,000 year time period is as “one day”, according to Scripture – although it will be a literal thousand days – and the other time periods are inclusive to make the final week. We must also remember that Christ must Reign until the last enemy is destroyed – which is Death. He then hands the Kingdom back over to God the Father, so that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

    This is the purpose of the 70 weeks set forth in the Book of Daniel.


  35. Hi Hisown…….

    LOL@ Kojak. It’s actually a pretty neat story on how I placed the “Mr” in front of Baldy.

    Just to let you know, I will send a special prayer for Papito.


  36. Mr. Baldy… I have been studying Truth’s timeline, and I think that you should take a look at it and consider the sacrifice being abolished as the starting of the 1290 and 1335 day time periods mentioned in Daniel 12:11-12. Truth has put a lot of work into the timeline, and although things are subject to change as we all know, I’d say that Truth’s timeline is put together nicely with scripture referenced as his guide and reasons for the dates he has displayed within the timeline. I myself don’t necessarily like dates and times, however I believe that scriptures gives us the number days from a starting point to allow us to see what will be transpiring next once the event takes place. From the looks of Truth’s timeline, the starting point is the abolished daily sacrifice. Once the date of that event is recorded, then all time in days refers back to that date.


  37. Hi Berryblueberry,

    I remember Truth, and his timeline. Where is Truth? I haven’t seen anything from him in quite some time. Perhaps Wickus can re-post what he has presented.

    My previous post was no original thought of my own – but a collaboration from the members of this board, as far as when the 70th week may begin, and how it may possibly overlap the time in which the Antichrist confirms the “Covenant with Many”.

    As you know, we all just want the truth. Any comments, suggestions, and any additional information for correction, reproof, and edification is certainly welcomed!


  38. Thanks Berryblueberry.

    I guess I must have missed that particular post. I will definately study it, read the comments, and add any comments I may have as well. Again, thank you.


  39. Mr Baldy,

    I have not gone away. I am here.

    The dates for the timeline have not changed. I have just eliminated options, corrected typos and grammar, and added more commentary.

    I would be happy to supply any of the visitors to this site with the most recent version of my prophecy timeline spreadsheet.

    I just sent Wickus and Berryblueberry a copy of Prophecy_v4.1.2.xls yesterday. As Berryblueberry mentioned, I have now reduced it to a single timeline. In my opinion, it is the only remaining viable timeline.

    As of today, the current working state (not yet released to anyone) of the timeline is Prophecy_v4.1.3.xls.

    Any suggestions on how I may send it to you?


  40. Hi Truth…….

    Yes, Wickus did forward the email, I have it. I don’t mind duplicates….so can you please forward anything that you have to: (deleted by Vic)
    Thank you in advance!


  41. Thanks for all the comments and the picture of Solana, as bjorn reported also he just got another appointment,
    Solana, now another Harvard Kennedy School Fisher Fellow

    “The Harvard Kennedy School announced Friday the spring 2012 recipients of its Fisher Family Fellowship, an award that recognizes excellence and innovation in diplomacy and brings fellows to Cambridge to engage with both Kennedy School students and the broader Cambridge community.

    Certainly not as Jesus told his disciples, to be fishers of men for the gospel and the kingdom.


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