As it was in the days of Noah.

Comment by Wickus:

I am concerned that many well meaning Christians looking for signs for the return of Christ are being deceived . There are many strange teachings floating around and their roots are not in the Bible, but in mysticism. The Bible is not a mystical book and I don’t believe for one second God wants us to look for strange explanations to the straight forward Word given to us.

Lets look at the following Words from Jesus:

Mat 24:37  But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

This verse has lead to many strange teachings like the Nephilim, supposedly giant offspring of demons mating with woman. I will talk about this a little later, but lets see what Jesus meant when with this statement.

Mat 24:38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Mat 24:39  And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

There He said it. He never said to find a mystical meaning about the days of Noah, sex with demons or giants wandering the earth. He said that people lived normal lives, although they have heard the warning of judgment and have seen Noah and his family building the ark. That is the message, straight from the Bible. Today there are many signs and warning that Jesus is coming, but people live like it will not happen.  I think one day someone is going to come out with a teaching that claims modern technology and electricity is going to be destroyed by something as we are not yet living like in the days of Noah as Jesus predicted.  There is nothing mystical about it.

Now some is going to say, but what about the sons of God that took the daughters of men as wives? That happened in Noah’s time, so it must be of relevance today to proof that the Nephilim will return. Let’s look at the Scriptures:

Gen 6:1  And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Gen 6:2  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:3  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The question still remains, who are the sons of God?  The popular teaching is that they were the fallen angels. Now I will say that it is ridicules to even consider that God will call Himself the Father of demons. That is pure blasphemy!  This teaching is spread by people who claim to be teachers but does not know the Bible.

Heb 1:5  For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Thank God for His word! The angels were never called sons of God. Jesus is the ONLY Son of God and because a born again Christian is hidden in Christ, we have the right to also be called sons of God.

Now the question is who are these sons of God mentioned in Genesis?

It is a very simple thing.  There is really nothing arcane to it at all, as is the case of most imaginary problems, and much ado should never have been made about this.  The answer is that men in the Bible are referred to often (not always, but very commonly) as the sons of God.  This is evident in the genealogy of Jesus, in the gospel of Luke, where He is traced back to Adam:  “. . . who was the son of God.”  Man was made in the image of God. Paul said this in I Corinthians 11:7, and woman was made in the image of man.  This passage is simply an example of men being referred to as the sons of God and women, because the woman came from the man, as the daughters of men.

There is no importance whatsoever—none of any kind—to be placed on the phraseology of this verse.  Such misguided preoccupation would divert us from the point.  The story here is about a situation where there were no laws, no enforcers of laws, and no moral rules.  Men were living by their consciences.  Every man did that which was right in his own eyes.  As far as the Bible reveals, there had been only one commandment given in all the history of the human race and that was the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  In the first dispensation from Adam to Noah, God experimented with a situation (for man’s learning because God knew what the end of it was going to be, but He was teaching man something) where each man lived by his conscience.  God sees the results of this and says: “My spirit will not always strive with men because they are but flesh.”  The Septuagint says, “My spirit shall certainly not remain among these people.”  The interlinear of the King James, the George Richter Berry edition, puts it more succinctly when it says, “My spirit shall not rule in man forever for he is ever erring.”  What is God saying?  He is saying simply that this process—this program of God trying to coerce man by ruling in the spirit and conscience of the mortal—was a failure because God was working with fallen beings.  He was dealing with a man who was susceptible to the lie and who did not want to do the right thing anyway.  What is described here is nothing more nor less than a situation of complete moral irresponsibility.  Morally, people were behaving like animals.  If a man saw a woman who appealed to him sexually, he just took her into his domicile and they began to cohabitate.  Women responded to this in the same undisciplined way.

I urge you dear friends to stay away from strange sensational teachings and set yourself into the pure Word of God that is easy to understand. There is nothing mystical about His word. It was given to children and not to scribes.

God bless you.

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115 thoughts on “As it was in the days of Noah.

  1. Sound teaching – sound exposition of the text by careful research into the meaning of the words in there original languages and context expose much false teaching that has been put over on those that will believe the first clever thing that they read.

    John Macarthur takes up the question of what is “nephilim” here:
    http://www.gty.org/resources/Sermons/70-20_Bible-Questions-and-Answers-Part-48

    and does his usual thorough job of explaining the text in a way that agrees with most other careful textual analysis that I’ve seen.

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  2. Wickus, so refreshing to find some balance in this crazy world! Where I live, it’s nearly impossible to find anyone who is both biblically balanced, Theologically sound and recognizes the lateness of the hour…if they recognize the lateness of the hour, they are also off into the New Age garbage, the nephilim and UFO’s, etc. Sometimes I think I am losing my mind or wonder if I’m the crazy one! How I wish I could gather all of you on this blog into one room, study and pray together weekly. Nevertheless, we have this website for which I am grateful. Thank you Wickus, you are a bright spot, you humbly handle the Word with integrity AND are a faithful watchman….your reward will be great.

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  3. Meanwhile in the real world:

    http://euobserver.com/19/113746
    US: EU has ‘not very much time’

    The economic crisis in the EU is festering – and the bankers of the world are watching and wondering “who will save us?”. Any ideas on how the EU could find a seasoned elder statesman with the experience to resolve this existential crisis?

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  4. Job 1:6
    King James Version (KJV)

    6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

    Job 2:1
    King James Version (KJV)

    1Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

    Not arguing pro or con, just trying to be accurate about Scripture. Nkosazana

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  5. Actually maybe I will add this conjecture: I consider it ?possible that the great delusion that God will let mankind succumb to could be alien spiritual masters, that would be demons. I agree very far fetched, and something I would of never even remotely entertained a couple of years ago, but….today…I don’t know. However it turns out, Jesus is the SON of God and Lord of all….no even remotely near comers to usurp that. Nkosazana

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  6. I will have to look into this. We all know Scripture can not contradict itself. The verse in Hebrews in the post clearly states that angels are not sons of God, so somewhere the Word will explain itself. Is there maybe someone here with more wisdom than me (probably many!), then please feel free to fill in the gaps.

    Wickus

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  7. I’m not an expert by any means, but reading the texts from Job cited as well as Genesis 6 again in context I find it perfectly logical to assume that the Sons of God (benai Ha Elohim) are human. Satan being among them when they came before God doesn’t really mean they are all the same thing (fallen angels). We know through other scriptures that the adversary comes among men and influences men – and this case perhaps (though this is pure conjecture) even speaks through a man (though God recognizes who is actually speaking).

    We are wise to seek the meaning of tricky texts by what they mean clearly elsewhere in the scriptures – since we know God’s word never contradicts itself.

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  8. by tricky I mean difficult – God never intends to trick us, but as his thoughts are so above ours, and his ways so above our it’s rational to assume sometimes we would have a tough time understanding what he’s saying.

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  9. Job 1:6 states “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.” The word for sons is ben and has a wider meaning in Hebrew than it does in English. Sons of God refers to some entity somehow connected or related to God. http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1121&t=KJV. God is related to angels in that He created them. So the “sons of God” does not necessarily mean the father son relationship that we think of on earth.

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  10. Just saw Justinsheeps post. I do not know of any time that man being able to just approach God in that manner. I also do not recall man showing up along side with Satan. I do not believe it is logical to assume they are human.

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  11. Well, let me give you my 2c worth, First, the word used for son in Genesis and Job is the same word. The word is “ben” or known in English, Son Of.

    Secondly, it is a well known fact that Job was written before Moses penned Genesis. It is the oldest book in the Bible. It might be that Job knew Adam personally and that his account happened before the flood.

    Thirdly, if this account happened before the flood as many believe, the original argument in the post still stands.

    And last but not least, the sons of God appearing before Him is really not such a big mystery. It still happens today in every true Church. In the days past men appeared before God in any type of worship, whether it was like Abel with an offering, like Israel at the tabernacle or the temple or today were two or three are gathered in His name.

    I don’t think we must see the Job account as angels appearing before the Lord in heaven, but rather Job and his family bringing an offer and worship to God with Satan, the accuser present. It makes more sense to me.

    Thanks Justasheep for sowing that seed.

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  12. Jude 1
    6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them……….. in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh………………, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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  13. This is how I read it:

    The angels who fell from grace by sinning (with Satan) left their home (Heaven) is kept by God in everlasting chains and darkness until judgment day. In this way God also judged Sodom and Gomorrah and the cites around them and who sinned against Him in the same way. They gave themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh (homosexuality). Both Israel, the angels and Sodom and Gomorrah are set forth as examples of God’s judgment that will rightly be bestowed upon sinful people. It goes in connection with verse 5 not posted :
    Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

    These verses tells me God is a righteous Judge.

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  14. Based on what I read in the Bible. The “Sons of God” being referred to are the angels. The Nephilim, Rephaim, etc., which are the giants, are their offspring.

    BUT, to make that a requirement of “the days of Noah” may or may not be correct. (NOTE: Scientists have been already trying to corrupt the human race for many years, by mixing animal DNA with human DNA to do whatever abominable experiments they think will “benefit mankind.” I did NOT look for this, but this topic keeps coming up in scientific publications. There is no theory here, just provable fact.)

    SCRIPTURE:

    Genesis 6:1-5

    “1 And it came to pass, when MEN began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

    2 That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of MEN that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.”

    * There is a distinction made between MEN and “SONS OF GOD” (it is a title in this sense, not literal sons).

    “ 3 And Yahweh said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    4 There were giants (נְפִל Nefel) in the earth in those days; and also after that when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of MEN (אָדָם Adam), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty (men is not in the Hebrew) which were of old, (אֱנוֹשׁ enowsh, ‘mortals’) of renown.

    5 And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”

    * Notice that God flooded the entire earth while the Nefel(im) were on earth the first time.

    * Notice how harsh God’s punishment was at this time.

    * God makes a distinction between the nations that Israel would fight against: the normal nations and those that had Giants. The normal ones were not to be completely destroyed. Women and children could be taken as their own.

    Deuteronomy 20:10-15

    10 “When you go near a city to fight against it, then proclaim an offer of peace to it. 11 And it shall be that if they accept your offer of peace, and open to you, then all the people who are found in it shall be placed under tribute to you, and serve you. 12 Now if the city will not make peace with you, but war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 And when Yahweh your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which Yahweh your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are NOT of the cities of these nations.

    * Notice how hard God’s punishment came against the nations that had the Giants.

    Deuteronomy 20:16-17

    16 “But of the cities of these peoples which Yahweh your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as Yahweh your God has commanded you, lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against Yahweh your God.

    1 Samuel 15:3

    2 Thus says Yahweh of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

    * Yahweh used not only Israel to exterminate the giants, but He also used Esau, Moab, and Ammon to do so as well. (Note: this is a whole chapter so it’s long)

    Deuteronomy 2:1-37

    1 “Then we turned and journeyed into the wilderness of the Way of the Red Sea, as Yahweh spoke to me, and we skirted Mount Seir for many days.
    2 “And Yahweh spoke to me, saying: 3 ‘You have skirted this mountain long enough; turn northward. 4 And command the people, saying, “You are about to pass through the territory of your brethren, the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir; and they will be afraid of you. Therefore watch yourselves carefully. 5 Do not meddle with them, for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as one footstep, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. 6 You shall buy food from them with money, that you may eat; and you shall also buy water from them with money, that you may drink.
    7 “For Yahweh your God has blessed you in all the work of your hand. He knows your trudging through this great wilderness. These forty years Yahweh your God has been with you; you have lacked nothing.”’
    8 “And when we passed beyond our brethren, the descendants of Esau who dwell in Seir, away from the road of the plain, away from Elath and Ezion Geber, we turned and passed by way of the Wilderness of Moab. 9 Then Yahweh said to me, ‘Do not harass Moab, nor contend with them in battle, for I will not give you any of their land as a possession, because I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession.’”

    10 (The Emim had dwelt there in times past, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. 11 They were also regarded as giants (רפה rapha), like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim. 12 The Horites formerly dwelt in Seir, but the descendants of Esau dispossessed them and destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their place, just as Israel did to the land of their possession which Yahweh gave them.)

    13 “‘Now rise and cross over the Valley of the Zered.’ So we crossed over the Valley of the Zered. 14 And the time we took to come from Kadesh Barnea until we crossed over the Valley of the Zered was thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war was consumed from the midst of the camp, just as Yahweh had sworn to them. 15 For indeed the hand of Yahweh was against them, to destroy them from the midst of the camp until they were consumed.
    16 “So it was, when all the men of war had finally perished from among the people, 17 that Yahweh spoke to me, saying: 18 ‘This day you are to cross over at Ar, the boundary of Moab. 19 And when you come near the people of Ammon, do not harass them or meddle with them, for I will not give you any of the land of the people of Ammon as a possession, because I have given it to the descendants of Lot as a possession.’”

    20 (That was also regarded as a land of giants (רפה rapha); giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, 21 a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. But Yahweh destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelt in their place, 22 just as He had done for the descendants of Esau, who dwelt in Seir, when He destroyed the Horites from before them. They dispossessed them and dwelt in their place, even to this day. 23 And the Avim, who dwelt in villages as far as Gaza—the Caphtorim, who came from Caphtor, destroyed them and dwelt in their place.)

    24 “‘Rise, take your journey, and cross over the River Arnon. Look, I have given into your hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his land. Begin to possess it, and engage him in battle. 25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you upon the nations under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you, and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you.’

    26 “And I sent messengers from the Wilderness of Kedemoth to Sihon king of Heshbon, with words of peace, saying, 27 ‘Let me pass through your land; I will keep strictly to the road, and I will turn neither to the right nor to the left. 28 You shall sell me food for money, that I may eat, and give me water for money, that I may drink; only let me pass through on foot, 29 just as the descendants of Esau who dwell in Seir and the Moabites who dwell in Ar did for me, until I cross the Jordan to the land which Yahweh our God is giving us.’
    30 “But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for Yahweh your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.
    31 “And Yahweh said to me, ‘See, I have begun to give Sihon and his land over to you. Begin to possess it, that you may inherit his land.’ 32 Then Sihon and all his people came out against us to fight at Jahaz.

    * Again none were left remaining.

    33 And Yahweh our God delivered him over to us; so we defeated him, his sons, and all his people. 34 We took all his cities at that time, and we utterly destroyed the men, women, and little ones of every city; we left none remaining.

    35 We took only the livestock as plunder for ourselves, with the spoil of the cities which we took. 36 From Aroer, which is on the bank of the River Arnon, and from the city that is in the ravine, as far as Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us; Yahweh our God delivered all to us. 37 Only you did not go near the land of the people of Ammon—anywhere along the River Jabbok, or to the cities of the mountains, or wherever Yahweh our God had forbidden us.

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  15. (My apologies, but I am going to double post this huge post. I have tried to format it to make it easier to read. Please feel free to delete my first post. :))

    Based on what I read in the Bible. The “Sons of God” being referred to are the angels. The Nephilim, Rephaim, etc., which are the giants, are their offspring.

    BUT, to make that a requirement of “the days of Noah” may or may not be correct. (NOTE: Scientists have been already trying to corrupt the human race for many years, by mixing animal DNA with human DNA to do whatever abominable experiments they think will “benefit mankind.” I did NOT look for this, but this topic keeps coming up in scientific publications. There is no theory here, just provable fact.)

    SCRIPTURE:

    Genesis 6:1-5

    “1 And it came to pass, when MEN began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

    2 That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of MEN that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.”

    ****[There is a distinction made between MEN and “SONS OF GOD” (it is a title in this sense, not literal sons)].

    “ 3 And Yahweh said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    4 There were giants (נְפִל Nefel) in the earth in those days; and also after that when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of MEN (אָדָם Adam), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty (men is not in the Hebrew) which were of old, (אֱנוֹשׁ enowsh, ‘mortals’) of renown.

    5 And Yahweh saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”

    **** (Notice that God flooded the entire earth while the Nefel(im) were on earth the first time.)

    **** (Notice how harsh God’s punishment was at this time.)

    **** (God makes a distinction between the nations that Israel would fight against: the normal nations and those that had Giants. The normal ones were not to be completely destroyed. Women and children could be taken as their own.)

    Deuteronomy 20:10-15

    10 “When you go near a city to fight against it, then proclaim an offer of peace to it. 11 And it shall be that if they accept your offer of peace, and open to you, then all the people who are found in it shall be placed under tribute to you, and serve you. 12 Now if the city will not make peace with you, but war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 And when Yahweh your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which Yahweh your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are NOT of the cities of these nations.

    **** (Notice how hard God’s punishment came against the nations that had the Giants.)

    Deuteronomy 20:16-17

    16 “But of the cities of these peoples which Yahweh your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as Yahweh your God has commanded you, lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against Yahweh your God.

    1 Samuel 15:3

    2 Thus says Yahweh of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

    **** [Yahweh used not only Israel to exterminate the giants, but He also used Esau, Moab, and Ammon to do so as well. (Note: this is a whole chapter so it’s long)]

    Deuteronomy 2:1-37

    1 “Then we turned and journeyed into the wilderness of the Way of the Red Sea, as Yahweh spoke to me, and we skirted Mount Seir for many days.
    2 “And Yahweh spoke to me, saying: 3 ‘You have skirted this mountain long enough; turn northward. 4 And command the people, saying, “You are about to pass through the territory of your brethren, the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir; and they will be afraid of you. Therefore watch yourselves carefully. 5 Do not meddle with them, for I will not give you any of their land, no, not so much as one footstep, because I have given Mount Seir to Esau as a possession. 6 You shall buy food from them with money, that you may eat; and you shall also buy water from them with money, that you may drink.
    7 “For Yahweh your God has blessed you in all the work of your hand. He knows your trudging through this great wilderness. These forty years Yahweh your God has been with you; you have lacked nothing.”’
    8 “And when we passed beyond our brethren, the descendants of Esau who dwell in Seir, away from the road of the plain, away from Elath and Ezion Geber, we turned and passed by way of the Wilderness of Moab. 9 Then Yahweh said to me, ‘Do not harass Moab, nor contend with them in battle, for I will not give you any of their land as a possession, because I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession.’”

    **** 10 The Emim had dwelt there in times past, a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. 11 They were also regarded as giants (רפה rapha), like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim. 12 The Horites formerly dwelt in Seir, but the descendants of Esau dispossessed them and destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their place, just as Israel did to the land of their possession which Yahweh gave them.

    13 “‘Now rise and cross over the Valley of the Zered.’ So we crossed over the Valley of the Zered. 14 And the time we took to come from Kadesh Barnea until we crossed over the Valley of the Zered was thirty-eight years, until all the generation of the men of war was consumed from the midst of the camp, just as Yahweh had sworn to them. 15 For indeed the hand of Yahweh was against them, to destroy them from the midst of the camp until they were consumed.
    16 “So it was, when all the men of war had finally perished from among the people, 17 that Yahweh spoke to me, saying: 18 ‘This day you are to cross over at Ar, the boundary of Moab. 19 And when you come near the people of Ammon, do not harass them or meddle with them, for I will not give you any of the land of the people of Ammon as a possession, because I have given it to the descendants of Lot as a possession.’”

    **** 20 That was also regarded as a land of giants (רפה rapha); giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim, 21 a people as great and numerous and tall as the Anakim. But Yahweh destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelt in their place, 22 just as He had done for the descendants of Esau, who dwelt in Seir, when He destroyed the Horites from before them. They dispossessed them and dwelt in their place, even to this day. 23 And the Avim, who dwelt in villages as far as Gaza—the Caphtorim, who came from Caphtor, destroyed them and dwelt in their place.

    24 “‘Rise, take your journey, and cross over the River Arnon. Look, I have given into your hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his land. Begin to possess it, and engage him in battle. 25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you upon the nations under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you, and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you.’

    26 “And I sent messengers from the Wilderness of Kedemoth to Sihon king of Heshbon, with words of peace, saying, 27 ‘Let me pass through your land; I will keep strictly to the road, and I will turn neither to the right nor to the left. 28 You shall sell me food for money, that I may eat, and give me water for money, that I may drink; only let me pass through on foot, 29 just as the descendants of Esau who dwell in Seir and the Moabites who dwell in Ar did for me, until I cross the Jordan to the land which Yahweh our God is giving us.’
    30 “But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for Yahweh your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.
    31 “And Yahweh said to me, ‘See, I have begun to give Sihon and his land over to you. Begin to possess it, that you may inherit his land.’ 32 Then Sihon and all his people came out against us to fight at Jahaz.

    **** (Again none were left remaining.)

    **** 33 And Yahweh our God delivered him over to us; so we defeated him, his sons, and all his people. 34 We took all his cities at that time, and we utterly destroyed the men, women, and little ones of every city; we left none remaining.

    35 We took only the livestock as plunder for ourselves, with the spoil of the cities which we took. 36 From Aroer, which is on the bank of the River Arnon, and from the city that is in the ravine, as far as Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us; Yahweh our God delivered all to us. 37 Only you did not go near the land of the people of Ammon—anywhere along the River Jabbok, or to the cities of the mountains, or wherever Yahweh our God had forbidden us.

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  16. As far as UFO’s, think of chariots and the Bible:

    Psalm 68:17 – The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place

    Regarding Cheribum:
    Ezekiel 1:4-5 – And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.

    Ezekiel 1:13-16 – As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

    Ezekiel 1:19-21 – And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

    If you think of what people say about UFO’s. They can make 90 degree turns without slowing down. They do not accelerate….they are at full speed immediately. They tend to have lights…flashing lights sometimes. We know from Psalm 68:17 that angels are His chariots. The spirit is in the wheels. The number 4 is related to the spirit realm. The cheribum have 4 sides..Eph 6:12 – struggle is against 4 things related to spirits. There are 4 of them around God’s throne. Look at Genesis 4….count the things…Other examples, but let’s move on….Angels live in the 4th dimension, which is coined height in the Bible. Satan is a Cherub…Ezekiel 28:14-15.

    Ephesians 3:17-18 – That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height.

    Job 22:12 – Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are! (stars are angels, right? Rev. 12-4)

    Psalms 102:19 – For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth

    We know Heaven is in the height. We know in Rev. 12-4 that bad angels will be cast out again. Are you sure that demonic angels will not be down on earth again (or before)? We know from Ephesians 6:12 that there are dark angelic forces in high places…..

    Ephesians 6:12 – For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    We need to remember the beasts in Daniel (there are 4 of them by the way Daniel 7:3). These beasts that come out of the sea. They are not driven by men, but my dark spiritual forces….we do not struggle against flesh, but against those in Eph 6:12.

    God sent evil angels among them:
    Psalm 78:49 – He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

    i could go on, but obviously I believe that angels are the “aliens” and “UFO’s” that we see. I also believe they did mate with daughters of earth.

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  17. Agie95, when I was still in the New Age (Did not even know it was the New Age) years ago, I was fascinated by a book of Erik von Daniken called Chariots of gods. He used the same verses to “proof” that life on earth originated from aliens. Since I got saved, I realized the error in trying to proof UFO’s and alien life out of God’s Word. I know that you try to proof that UFO’s are from demonic origin, but this gives me the shivers.

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  18. When you go to Biblegate…Job 1:6 translates as either sons of God, heavenly beings, angels, divine beings, members of the heavenly court….none indicate it was Job’s family or any other humans.
    Were Job party to this conversation…it would make no sense that he had this enormous confusion about what was happening to him.

    Satan could be viewed as a son of God in that he was created by him, without being “part” of him.
    Barnes notes: “The sons of God – Angels; compare Job 38:7. The whole narrative supposes that they were celestial beings.”

    The phrase ‘sons of God’ may well entail the idea of ambassadors or representatives of God, as they serve him,…and even evil is made to serve God’s purposes, and cannot act without his knowledge and allowance. I am a “daughter of America” whether I behave well, or am perceived as the “ugly American”. God has only one begotten Son,but as Christians we rejoice in the fact he has many sons and daughters adopted thru Christ.

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  19. I don’t know Biblegate. I use Strongs. Strongs list son as ben, meaning son of. It is the same meaning as in Luke calling Adam the son of God.

    The illustration that I gave on Job’s family is just an illustration to show how people can appear or stand before God. By no means can it be proved.

    In the original post quoted from Hebrew where it is stated that no angel was ever called a son of God. Man was created in God’s image. The Bible speaks clearly about the first Adam and the second Adam, Jesus. Thus it makes sense that God created man as His son, but man messed it up by sinning. The second Adam, Jesus, restored that relationship by His blood. As he was called Son of God, we who are in Christ can claim the same. The unbelievers are not sons or daughters. I find it wrong that satan can ever be called a son of God. Angels are beings creates for serving and worship.

    I will provide you with Scripture in the morning to show what a privilege it is for a sinner, saved by grace, to be called a son of God. But now I must go to bed.

    Wickus

    Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom – let your email find you!

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  20. He is a supernatural God. Why is it so hard for people to understand that God is supernatural? He created spirit beings including man. The Bible says that we are spirit, soul, and body in that order, although most people quote this backwards because we are so fleshly minded. We are spirits who have a soul and live in a body which will one day change to immortal. One day soon I might add! The Bible says, do not have a form of Godliness and deny the power there of. We need to put on the mind of Christ. He is much higher than us in His thinking and if we are going to begin to see the greater works than He did happen we must change the way that we think about Him. He is a supernatural being and there for does supernatural things. And before someone says it, yes, follow the Word on this. There are incredible things that happened = spiritual, supernatural things all through the Bible. I can’t believe how many people think that it is far fetched that there are demons at work on the earth today. Almost three quarter of Jesus’ recorded ministry was casting out demons and most of the organised church does not even believe they exist. Jesus told us that we would do greater works and we don’t see very many in this country because you are considered a nut case by the majority of the organised church if you believe in the gifts of the Holy Ghost. Sorry, I am on a soap box about this. I am not upset or mad at anyone on this blog. I am just tired of people trying to change who God is and what His nature is to make themselves feel more confortable with Him. I truly love and value this place where people come and really get down to nitty gritty of the Word.

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  21. we know the days of noah were evil continually before the flood happened. demonic manifestations were becoming rampant. i agree with what nkosozana posted here today. the little book of jude just before the book of revelation of Jesus is a revelation of the spiritual state of the world before Christ returns and is in it’s very placement an expose’ of what happened then that has a fulfillment pictured for the last days. there are never any accidents in scripture. the devil always tries to counterfeit God’s dealings here on earth with us. note the lying wonders during moses’ time before pharoah. what moses did by the power of the God of israel the demonicly empowered sorcerers were doing as to counter Gods’ miracles-notice they were limited but God never ever is!. of course we know also that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit as The Son of God-there is only One-begotten but not created. of the devil’s minions it appears that some of them had the capacity for conceiving evil seed thru human women producing super powered people (for evil of course) genesis 6. the sons of God referred are according to what i have studied the angels who are created beings that were all once with God in heaven until sin was found in the devil and 2/3 of the angelic host chose to follow him. angels have a choice too-but they have no Savior like humans made in God’s image. the geography of the land of the giants in the middle east is spelled out when you look it up in scripture and we see the specific area where goliath and his brothers (and others) were produced. these were descendants of the giants that made israel afraid to enter the land God gave them. deceptions and lying wonders are the hallmark of anti-christ’s reign on earth as he has more than human power in and thru him. we are arriving at this time very shortly in my estimation. this is why we need so much for the Holy Spirit to give us wisdom and discernment of the spirit world and it’s wicked ways as to expose his evil deeds. he will be doing many showy things to impress the faithless and unlearned. i don’t study up on this subject to know every weird theory out there but i notice that the Bible brings things like this passage up from the ancient times of the old testament so we can know also the new testament application for our times. there are types and shadows for Jesus depicted throughout the Bible but also for the devil. he wants our flesh distracted by the sensational displays he can produce so we will not heed the infallible Word of God. we must remember that even evil is a tool that God can use. many more weird things to happen on the horizon but the Word has and will light the Way that we may discern the trickery of the devil. evil spirits highlight a counterfeit god-counterfeit “jesus”. but the real Holy Spirit always highlights the real Jesus Son of God and His cross which is the Way to God the Father and cannot-will not go against one Word of the Holy Bible. the devil is very sly-he knows scripture too-but the Holy Spirit can sniff him out for us if we will heed and trust the Lord and not go by own our fleshly mind and heart and it’s weakness for believing lies. jeremiah 17:9-10 we must pray and stay in the Word my friends!

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  22. thanks folks for the good discussion. brenda and test of time do a good job in my thinking to give everyone much to ponder. ufos-aliens–weird behaviors are on the increase-all devil inspired and very popular with people who do not know God. the paranormal is hot topic. hollywood is having a field day with these subjects setting people up by innoculating them on this issue. the devil is going to pull out all the stops to make people buy into his deceptions. he is already well on his way and this world ain’t seen nothin’ yet of what he wants to do to destroy by his lies. people in their sinful unrepentant hearts and minds will believe anything but God—heartbreaking–because believing the King of Glory is actually easier–but only for the humble who will receive Him and accept His free gift of forgiveness-who want to be ruled by Him.

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  23. Just because some take advantage of things and write books, etc and say that aleins created us etc etc, does not negate the fact that something happened that even made more corruption than just sin itself, I agree with the testoftime and andre posting, the scriptures do indicate something happened there. Giants in the land, why? The old Greek mythology etc, may be a lot of lies, but usually in a lot of lies, there lies a bit of truth.

    The Septuagint, or Orthodox bible the greeks call it I think, was used by the early church, it is attested to in the ante-nicene fathers, that is the ones before the church became romanized. And if you check the words of some of the ancestors listed you will find that the old testament version in the KJV you will not locate some of those names, this is because the new testament which was written in Greek, follows the spelling of the Septuagint which was also written in Greek. Just a point to ponder on this issue. You can check this out yourself by reading the genealogy written in Matthew of Jesus and see the names do not match up in some cases.

    Genisis 6, Septuagint ECMarsh online version
    2 And it came to pass when men began to be numerous upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, 3 that the sons of God having seen the daughters of men that they were beautiful, took to themselves wives of all whom they chose. 4 And the Lord God said, My Spirit shall certainly not remain among these men for ever, because they are flesh, but their days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 5 Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore children to them, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.

    9 But Noe found grace before the Lord God. 10 And these are the generations of Noe. Noe was a just man; being perfect in his generation, Noe was well-pleasing to God. 11 And Noe begot three sons, Sem, Cham, Japheth. 12 But the earth was corrupted before God, and the earth was filled with iniquity. 13 And the Lord God saw the earth, and it was corrupted; because all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth. 14 And the Lord God said to Noe, A period of all men is come before me; because the earth has been filled with iniquity by them, and, behold, I destroy them and the earth.

    Noe being perfect in his generation? So does this mean that before Jesus Christ, the one perfect man who could sacrifice himself for our sins, that Noah or Noe was perfect?

    Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

    If you notice when Jesus spoke these words, the word is Noe?

    his words written in red in the KJV bible.

    This is the way the Septuagint, Orthodox version, which is Greek still I think they read this one but since I am not Greek Orthodox not sure on that one. But Job is translated this way here:
    Job Chapter 1, Septuagint version online

    6 And it came to pass on a day, that behold, the angels of God came to stand before the Lord, and the devil came with them. 7 And the Lord said to the devil, Whence art thou come? And the devil answered the Lord, and said, I am come from compassing the earth, and walking up and down in the world. 8 And the Lord said to him, Hast thou diligently considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a man blameless, true, godly, abstaining from everything evil? 9 Then the devil answered, and said before the Lord, Does Job worship the Lord for nothing? 10 Hast thou not made a hedge about him, and about his household,

    I am one who does not think anyone should go off into the ozone layer as some have done, with a lot of phoney baloney, but these giants came from something abnormal happening on the earth, and I do not think it was genetic defects from man developing.

    Again, Jude says that the angels who left their first estate are locked up now

    and Peter says this as well:

    2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    I will tell you that until Augustine wrote the City of God, and remember Augustine had been a pagan into a bad heretical group before his conversion, the early believers from what my studies seem to bear out, thought that these were angels mixing with women on earth.

    Now the Book of Enoch probably has been corrupted, and there are a few different versions out there, but the watchers are mentioned in Daniel as well here:

    H5894
    עיר
    ‛ı̂yr
    eer
    (Chaldee); from a root corresponding to H5782; a watcher, that is, an angel (as guardian): – watcher.

    Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

    anyway this certainly should never be a salvation issue amongst believers, and it should not get carried away to the extent that it has either
    but everything seems to get carried away in this time we live in, and even before

    This is just from my own personal studies, when I asked the Lord one day where did demons come from? And at one time I actually thought viruses and bacterial things that make people sick might be demons too.

    So take it how you wish, but there is still a lot of meat to learn and I do not think any of us really knows it all as yet. But we can trust and have faith in the one who does to teach us and lead us, that is the comforter given to the disciples of Jesus, the Holy Spirit.

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  24. An interesting discussion – now that I’m home for the evening I wanted to weigh in with some things I didn’t have time to mention earlier.

    As far the UFO stuff- I honestly don’t know one way or the other. I don’t think the Bible suggests anywhere that it MUST be so – but knowing that Satan and his demons are very real, I don’t put it past our enemy to use that as a ruse to seal those who reject the one true God and our Lord and Savior in their fate.

    Thank you Wickus for adding on to that comment – I do believe that proper heart worship (not empty ritual) brings man into the presence of God. I’m not talking about literally being in the throne room of God as Isaiah was in Isaiah 6 – but coming before the Lord like during the sacrifices of the temple service – or in worship as we do today, or in prayer. I’m not suggesting that our adversary has done any of these things – I’m just saying the phrase doesn’t necessarily require angelic beings in some heavenly realm.

    As I mentioned the term “sons of God” last time I wanted to mention the passage where I find the most clarity about who the scriptures are referring to. The below from the Gospel of Luke clearly identifies the “sons of God” as human – they are certainly not angels who are also mentioned in this passage and we know one does not become the other.

    “And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
    (Luke 20:34-36 ESV)

    I also find the humanity of those that are called “sons of God” being reinforced further in Roman 8:14, 8:19, 9:26 and Galatians 3:26 and 4:6.

    Please understand – I’m not taking issue with most of the major conclusions anyone is making above – that evil will be rampant in the world, that demonic forces will have a great influence over many humans, and that the adversary will decieve many with all sorts of clever schemes and seductions that appeal to the human heart. I just think we need to consider very carefully before we leap to conclusions that bear at least some connection to extrabiblical sources.

    I am troubled by some of the discussion above since it makes assumptions about terms that are expounded upon in non-biblical texts like the book of enoch – and it’s identification of nephelim beyond what the bible provides. I don’t know that we can say with certainty that it refers to some non-human being – it could also mean someone who falls on his enemies, referring to a cruel warlike people – that fall on those around them in attack. When I look at Numbers 13 in context – I see that those that pointed out that there were nephilim in the promised land were bearing a story that was not exactly pleasing to God and resulted in them being a lost generation dying in the desert. They feared these men they saw in Canaan more than they trusted God to deliver them.

    I think Numbers 13 is a great reminder for today – that no matter what we see in the world today we can cling confidently to the promise that our Lord has made that he would rescue us and deliver us from the time of great trouble. Lets not focus on the giants aliens or UFO’s in the land- but rather keep our eyes on the Lord and do our best to be about the work he has set out for as we await his return.

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  25. what blesses me is that this discussion informs and sheds a little bit of light on what is obscure and curious and yes pretty creepy but definitely relevant to our times because there is a context for it. the world is looking into these things and the church should at least make attempt to answer-but according to Bible knowledge-the only absolute Truth in the world. the Bible talks about it so we do-but not for shock value. the devil likes to shock folks and then desensitize subjects by over-exposure and flagrant heresies to confound as the author of confusion. (he is a crafty one but God has the upper hand regardless and can and does expose him for the liar he is). there is much warning that can be brought forth from these topics. things foreshadowed in the old testament have a current context for us in these new testament last days. only His Spirit that can reveal the Truth from His Word as the final authority-and proper history can back it up-to anyone so we can steer clear of the lies so often wrapped in a measure of Truth (like roma pointed out) that the devil may deceive. in this we are holding fast and i’m thankful for the faith of each of you. as often encouraged here-job #1 for us is to keep His Cross lifted high that others who are seeking can see the Savior and come to Him to be forgiven and eternally saved. be ready to give an answer to every man and the ultimate answer-we know-is the Glorious Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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  26. Okay, I am just going to copy John MacArthur’s answer that Justasheep mentioned in the first comment here. There are so many interpretations of this sons of God and Nephilim subject, but I still believe that there is nothing mystical about it all. Here is John:

    Andy: I want to ask you…in Genesis 6, if the Nephilim giants didn’t survive the flood, how come when Caleb and Joshua and the spies went to Canaan, they found the Nephilim giants there? And also, why are there so many interpretations of Genesis 6?

    John: Well, the fact that there are so many interpretations of Genesis 6 means that a lot of people have gotten it wrong, right? Because there is only one proper interpretation. I understand that because there are some obscurities in the passage, okay. There are some obscurities in the passage. It’s helpful to me, however, to know that most of the views that are different than the one that I hold have come later in history, that the earliest views of Genesis 6 that we can find…even among rabbis, to say nothing of early church fathers…viewed the “sons of God” as angels.

    So, by taking, as we did when I went through that, the “sons of God” as fallen angels, demons, who come down and possess men, who then take wives and really desire demon involvement, and have children. That’s to show the depth of the fallenness of man: he engages himself with demons willingly. I think that, in the context of what Satan was doing in Genesis 6, it’s the best interpretation. It’s consistent with what he tried to do in the garden as we pointed out at the time.

    But, it says that at that time there were giants on the Earth in those days, and it uses the word Nephilim. The term is from a Hebrew verb “to fall,” and it has to do with powerful beings that crush somebody. This is not a race of people; this is just some powerful people, some powerful men who fell on others in the sense of overpowering them. That’s what I put in the note and that’s exactly what I believe is accurate.

    They were already on the earth when children born of these unions of demonically possessed people came out. They were mighty men. It says, “The products of those unions were mighty men and men of renown.” There were, in ancient times, mighty men and men of renown born to those unions. But, there also were these Nephilim, these powerful, powerful conquerors. The idea is that they are threats, dangerous. It just describes them because we want to know something about the pre-flood society. There were oppressive, I suppose you could say even deadly, men in that day. There were powerful, I suppose we could call them conquerors or warriors.

    And so that word Nephilim is describing them. Later on, when the spies went into the land, and they came back to report what they had seen, they simply said, “There are Nephilim there.” They didn’t mean that they were the children of Nephilim, as if they were a race. Nephilim, because of its usage here, was sort of a word that they all knew was in the Scripture, and they knew that it referred to giants. And so when they came back and wanted to report that essentially the Canaanites were unconquerable, they simply said, “They’re Nephilim.” They just took that word in its generic sense…in its general meaning…rather than having it refer to some race. They couldn’t have been children of Nephilim. Nephilim was not a race; it wasn’t a tribe; and they couldn’t have had any children that lasted until that time, as you said, because the flood drowned everybody but eight people.

    So, it’s just a term that has to do with warriors…powerful, deadly, fearful kind of men. And Joshua…in Joshua and Caleb’s day, the spies who didn’t believe they could conquer Canaan wanted to make their point as strongly as they could and so they said, “They’re like the giants, like the Nephilim that are mentioned in Genesis, chapter 6.” Okay?

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  27. Job 38:7 talks about the “Sons of God” singing while God created the earth. There is no way possible that this passage is referring to men.

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  28. I will study Job a bit more, but the following verse just came up:

    Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    It is clear that angels or heavenly beings don’t marry or reproduce according to Jesus. This means that in the Genesis 6 account it could not have been angels that married women. So there is no way that the sons of God were angels.

    Wickus

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  29. What does marriage have to do with somehow producing a baby with a human?

    Something that is interesting is the word used for giant(s) in Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 is different than all the other uses of the word giant(s)

    Genesis 6:4 & Num. 13:33 – giants, the Nephilim

    the rest – 1) giants, Rephaim a) old tribe of giants

    Job16:14 – mighty hunter

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  30. Aggie, the original post and discussion is about the following verse:

    Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    By taking them as wives it means they got married. When I took my wife, I got married. Jesus said angels do NOT get married, so that proofs to me that the sons of God in Genesis was not angels. Taking a wife and getting married is one and the same and has got a lot to do with producing a baby in the biblical sense.

    Wickus

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  31. Hi Wikus,

    Look at this word and see if it does not make Biblical sense that the angels that fell COULD HAVE……LEFT their SPIRIT Bodies to do with women what they could not or was ORDAINED by God to NOT DO.

    Strong’s #3613: oiketerion (pronounced oy-kay-tay’-ree-on)

    neuter of a presumed derivative of 3611 (equivalent to 3612); a residence (literally or figuratively):–habitation, house.

    Thayer’s Greek Lexicon:
    ̓́

    oikētērion

    1) a dwelling place, habitation

    1a) of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit

    Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G3613/oiketerion.htm#ixzz1ZFu03EZw

    Notice the relationship of Gen 6 to these verses………………………

    2 Peter 2:
    4 For if God spared not the ……angels that sinned,….. but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    5 And spared not the ………old world, but saved Noah…….. the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

    6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

    Coincidense?…………………..and…………Look at the similarity of these too…..

    Jude

    6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their ……….own habitation,…… he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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  32. Jude

    6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their ……….own habitation,…… he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    7 Even……………………………………. as ………………………………………Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, ……………and going after strange flesh,………………… are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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  33. “Jesus said angels do NOT get married”

    In the resurection……..was the question asked.

    They did so and SINNED/FELL by doing so in rebbelion AGAINST God.

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  34. Gen 16:3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

    There are many places in the Bible were it says that someone took a wife. Wife is the key. I agree they may not have our ceremonies, but they took wives as the sons of God took wives.

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  35. ” they took wives as the sons of God took wives.”

    I agree……they TOOK what they wanted of the women TO SEXUALY KNOW them.

    Most likely without consent…………raped, in other words.

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  36. How can the relationship between the passages in Gen 6, 2Peter and Jude as showing the Timing and relationship to the days of Noah and the sexual sins of Sodom and Gomorrah go unnoticed by anyone?

    Seems as plain as can be to me.

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  37. Jude

    6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their ……….own habitation,…… he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    Here it is

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  38. Seems so…………………How many have enterlained angels unaware?……I’ve met angels and i’ll tell you they are as human “LOOKING” as can be.

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  39. Jude

    6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their ……….own habitation,…… he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    7 Even……………………………………. as ………………………………………Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in…………………………………………………………….. like manner……………………………………………, giving themselves over to fornication, ……………and going after strange flesh,………………… are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    This needed to be posted again……………………..in……………..LIKE MANNER.

    ANGELS…………………….in LIKE MANNER………………going after STRANGE flesh.

    Something AGAINST what they were created for, just AS homosexuals go AGAINST what they were created for.

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  40. Mankind is supposed to get married too, but they don’t and they reproduce children. Angel protocol is celibacy, but apparently angel practice can be different.

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  41. When the Nephilim return…..probably soon…..we need to pull out these scriptures and show a very confused world where these passages are in our Bible.

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  42. “Job 38:7 talks about the “Sons of God” singing while God created the earth. There is no way possible that this passage is referring to men.”

    ***************************************************************************************

    Shouldn’t this just about settle WHO…….the “Son’s of God” in Gen 6 are refering too?

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  43. And there is no way that the Bible says that the Nephilim will return.

    I think this discussion is getting confusing as we have already addressed that verse a few comments up. I see the same things popping up and I am not going to repeat myself the whole time. Please read the OP and all the comments.

    Wickus

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  44. Tribber, you and Nkosazana just want to proof that Nephilim is descendants of spiritual beings and that they will return in a ufo. It is not Scriptural and Scripture needs to be twisted to fit into that view. I will rather look for Biblical and sound signs for the return of Christ.

    Wickus

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  45. We are not told many things about the end of days……..but i believe it will fall in line with the “strong delusion” sent by God.

    We will see.

    Soon.

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  46. Thanks Mr B. I just get frustrated when the same verses is quoted, verses already explained.

    Just check out the word for giant in Gen 6. A more literal translation would have been tyrant or bully.

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  47. Wickus, as I stated before the Gen 6 giants is not a tyrant or bully.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5303&t=KJV

    There are verses that say that sons of God is not man, all of them in Job. No one can say that the sons of God in Job 38:7 are humans. So you nor anyone else can defiantly state that sons of God is always humans. Obviously, it is not the case.

    I have always heard that Satan wanted ruin the DNA of the line to Jesus. This is why Satan and the demonic angels wanted and needed to do this. Fast forward to today and you can see all the manipulating of the DNA structure that is being attempted today. Scientists are doing evil evil work.

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  48. Agie, I use ESword with Strongs. It says that Gen 6 giants is tyrants. Here it is:

    Gen 6:4 There wereH1961 giantsH5303 in the earthH776 in thoseH1992 days;H3117 and alsoH1571 afterH310 that,H3651 whenH834 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 came inH935 untoH413 the daughtersH1323 of men,H120 and they bareH3205 children to them, the sameH1992 became mighty menH1368 whichH834 were of old,H4480 H5769 menH376 of renown.H8034

    H5303
    נפל נפיל
    nephı̂yl nephil
    nef-eel’, nef-eel’
    From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: – giant.

    It looks like Blueletterbible does not give the complete Strongs description. Studybible agrees with ESword.

    http://studybible.info/strongs/H5303

    Before Christ was born, Satan tried to kill all the Israelites as he did not want the Savior to be born. He understood the first prophecy in the Bible that the Messiah will bruise his head. That is the reason why he tempted Herod to kill all the baby boys while baby Jesus and his family fled to Egypt. After the resurrection Satan knew that the only way he can stop Jesus to return is to kill all the Jews. If there are no Jews left, then prophecy can not be fulfilled of the Messiah coming for His people. You can see how satan has tried for 2000 to get rid of the Jews, the last time with Hitler and currently by Israel surrounded by enemies who wants her total destruction.

    The flesh is corrupt and serves no purpose anymore. Any DNA manipulation will do nothing to the line of Jesus. How could it and for what purpose?

    I am really concerned that well meaning Christians are looking to deep into mystical teachings and do not stick with the pure simplicity of God’s word.

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  49. Tribber, you said:

    “We are not told many things about the end of days……..but i believe it will fall in line with the “strong delusion” sent by God.
    We will see.
    Soon.”

    Tribber, we are told MUCH about the end of days. We have the complete Bible and that consists of about 60% prophecy. There are more prophecies about the return of Christ than about His birth, life and death. We do not need anything more than the Bible. I will suggest that you study those prophecies in prayer.

    I trust that you want to say that the strong delusion has got something to do with people who does not see the “truth” behind the nephilim? Here is the complete Scripture in context.

    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    It looks to me that Paul is saying that people who does not want to receive the love of the truth (the Gospel) to get saved will be under a strong delusion send by God to believe the lie. This is applicable to unrepentant sinners and not His Children looking for His return.

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  50. I think the issue I find most disturbing in this conversations is that people think that the sons of God in Gen 6 are demons. Yes, maybe the reference to the sons of God in Job is given to angels, holy angels, but the reference in Gen 6 is given to sinful entities.

    Just one question, if you go to a church on Sunday, or visit a website, and the pastor or writer tells you that satan and his demons are sons of God, just like Christians are sons of God will you feel comfortable? Do you feel good to think that satan is your brother in the spirit as you are both sons of God? Do you view demons in the 21st century as sons of God?

    If you answer yes to any of these question I will submit to you that you know not God.

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  51. Hi again Wickus! The answer is definitely a no. They are no longer “Sons of God”. They exchanged the glory given to them from God for something shameful. (I know this phrase is talking about something else, but it still is true). They are our enemies and will be destroyed by God in the lake of fire along will all that rebelled against God.

    I believe that they (angels) were not made to reproduce at all. I also believe that all angels are male in likeness. They are always referred to as he or him. I have never heard of in scripture “woman angels”. BUT, it is evident (for an important reason) that spirit CAN mix with flesh. The best instance is when Yahweh’s Spirit came upon Miriam (Mary) so that Yeshua would be born (being Yahweh in the flesh).

    Now, scripture is very clear that 1/3 of the “morning stars” (angels) rebelled against God. Exactly how did they rebel? What was it that they did? I could be wrong, but I think that this event had something to do with it.

    Also, concerning the male likenesses of the angels, remember Ron Wyatt.

    I don’t agree with the teachings that his “denomination” (SDA) taught, but it is evident that God used him to find the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah’s Ark, Red Sea Crossing, Mt. Sinai, and the Ark of the Covenant. Everything shown concerning these things is 100% Biblically accurate. (I have one of the DVDs with the video, and scientific evidence is shown as well. If anyone wants a copy let me know and I’ll send you one.)

    Anyhow, his description of the Ark of the Testimony, describes the to cherubim as having beards and mitres along with priestly garments. The Biblical description and Ron’s description are BOTH clearly in opposition to the picture that is painted today in the secular (and even Christian world) with these girly looking “angels”, or even woman angels.

    Remember a few weeks ago we were talking about false prophets. In the guy’s “testimony” he said that a woman “angel” named Emma talked to him.

    Right away I knew that something was wrong. I does not line up with the Word of God.

    All this aside, I would like to wish you all a pleasant Yom Teruah (Day of Trumpets). One day soon, after we go through the fire, we will hear the trumpet of God and we will be with Yeshua our Master and God, the King of Kings.

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  52. Very interesting, thanks Testoftime. You don’t maybe know if there is a YouTube video of the DVD?

    Yes, spirit can mix with flesh. That is whats called demon possession.

    The account of the Holy Spirit who came upon Mary is a miracle from God. That is why it is a prophecy fulfilled that a virgin will become pregnant with a child. It can not happen and will never happen again as it is something only God can do. If Satan reproduce it, well then we can doubt if Jesus is the Christ. Too much power is being given to fallen angels (demons).

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  53. Here are the links Wickus! Each one is about 30 minutes long.

    Noah’s Ark:

    Sodom And Gomorrah:

    Red Sea Crossing:

    Mt. Sinai:

    Ark Of The Covenant:

    I do enjoy talking about subjects in the Bible. I think it’s great. What I don’t want is anyone going astray OR parting ways because we differ in our beliefs (this does not include the Truth of salvation of course). I also I think we should focus on the things that brought us together i.e. the ENPI etc.

    But if anyone though that this discussion was a “turbulent” one, there are other topics that are even more “heated”. I hesitate to even mention it because I know I will receive a flood of opposition. It concerns the Torah of God. I have many many scriptures that prove this to be true, but it is NOT a salvation issue. I don’t write about it here because I will have to dedicate much time to explain, all sources coming from the Scriptures of course. The problems stem from tradition, infiltration of paganism, and even intentional mistranslations of the Bible (translators adding text that is not there or substituting the real words for something else.) I don’t know that I want to dedicate that much effort into discussing what I believe is true concerning that, but I do have rock solid proof from the Rock Himself (Yeshua). Alas, I will refrain from doing so.

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  54. I am not trying to proof they will return at all. Blavatsky, theologian of the new age is saying they (aliens) will return as spiritual master guides. Baloney. But God does say that he will give mankind over to believing a great delusion. It would be crazy for mankind to buy all this. However, the movie world has seeded man’s thinking this way. Satan has had a lot of time to prepare some explanation for things such as the rapture…and God has said he is going to allow people’s gullibility to go forward. This is totally far out to me as well as most traditionalist Christians,…but times are very different than those we grew up in. I just want to be flexible enough in my thinking to be able to roll with the punches Satan may administer.

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  55. Quite a claim Wickus to say that those who believe that angels are the sons of God are not Christians. Quite a claim, when it is pretty clear in Job 38 that it is angels that are being referenced there. Quite a claim regarding you do not know anything about me or the others on here. I believe the authorized version of the King James Bible. Job tells us they are angels, PERIOD. There is no mysticism involved. The Bible tells us spiritual forces are at work. The Bible tells us that angels both good and bad were here on earth. The Bible tells us they will be here in the future. This is all in the Bible.

    You went too far!

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  56. Thanks Test! I will surely download and watch them.

    I like to just post a “heated” post once in a while and only as I feel the Lord is leading. It is edifying and hopefully someone will learn from it. I know I can be a pain when it comes to the Bible. It is maybe because I grew up in a house were my dad was a Jehovah’s Witness. And oh boy, can they bend Scripture to proof something!! I guess that was my schooling time in discernment. But don’t get me wrong, I still learn every day. Like you I like talking and debating about Biblical truths.

    But yes, this site is here for discussing prophecy related to current news.

    My email is always available if you or someone else wants to discuss Biblical topics but don’t want to do it here. I may not always know the answers, but I am sure we can all learn from each other.

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  57. Agie, were did I ever said that!!! Stop misquoting me please!!!

    Re-read my comment and then make your false claims if you still can. I am not even gonna re post it here. Just scroll up.

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  58. I don’t recall that being said either Wickus….i think Agie misread something…..i know you don’t think that for a minute.

    About the Wyatt discoveries…..I met him and had dinner with him, Mary nel and Richard Rives on several ocassions. The deck timber you see in the Noahs Ark video is one that I was able to hold and examine personaly at his home.
    I use the word “examine” not in the strictest sense, but at one time I was a woodworker/cabinet maker and I can tell you that piece of petrified wood is like nothing else. It is laminated wood with zero/no growth-rings, nothing on earth like unto it i’ll tell ya!

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  59. Just to add something else since were talking about Noah and Giants. Ron had several other items he showed me and let me handle; one item was a bone from the big toe of a very, VERY tall human. Now he found it near where the remains of Noah’s Ark is located.

    The bone was not the tip of the big toe but the second bone back from the tip and it was about three inches long and about two inches at the widest point across. Ron had several anthropologist opinions on it and they all agreed…….the bone would have belonged to a human about ……….eighteen………18……..feet!!!!!!! TALL!!!!

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  60. That’s really cool that you were able to see those things yourself and talk to his family! Did they find any other bones?

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  61. I’ll say this as I’ve said in another place “not here”

    If you take a donkey and breed it to a horse you get a “hybrid”,, they will be usually “much” larger and “much” stronger then either parent…

    But they are “hybrid” they “mostly cannot” reproduce.. “extremely rarely” if they do…

    So this corrupting the bloodline of Jesus “doesn’t work”… Hybrids don’t reproduce….

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  62. That’s the only one he had that I saw. But I did also handle several hunks of ballast slag metal, the big rivet in the video, the square stone that covered the hole where the cross was placed in the ground and sulfur balls from Sodom and Gomorrah.

    Ron was real genuine and honestly humble. The slander from all his critics are just that, slander…..they just believe the nonsense written by ignorant and jealous people who know nothing of the facts for themselves.

    I’ve been blessed beyond words to have known him and seen these things first hand.

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  63. No one here has posted anything in agreement with some of the junk that is out there with the theosophical groups, but I am in agreement, the bible says what is says, these angels were not demons that inhabited men, because that is not what the bible says at all.

    1Co 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
    1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
    1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
    1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
    1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

    Ok so why did Paul say this here? because of the angels, and Genesis 6 says, and after that

    I will stick to what the earliest know bishops of the church whose writings have been kept and now translated for us to read believed, Irenaues taught by Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, I will weigh in with the ones closest to the original apostles.

    Irenaues, ante-nicene church bishop before the church was romanized and augustine came along and wrote that the sons of god, were sons of seth, and the daughters of men, were daughters of Cain.

    Against Heresies, Book IV, Chapter 36
    4. Since the Son of God is always one and the same, He gives to those who believe in Him a well of water John 4:14 [springing up] to eternal life, but He causes the unfruitful fig-tree immediately to dry up; and in the days of Noah He justly brought on the deluge for the purpose of extinguishing that most infamous race of men then existent, who could not bring forth fruit to God, since the angels that sinned had commingled with them, and [acted as He did] in order that He might put a check upon the sins of these men, but [that at the same time] He might preserve the archetype, the formation of Adam. And it was He who rained fire and brimstone from heaven, in the days of Lot, upon Sodom and Gomorrha, an example of the righteous judgment of God, that all may know, that every tree that brings not forth good fruit shall be cut down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 3:10 And it is He who uses [the words], that it will be more tolerable for Sodom in the general judgment than for those who beheld His wonders, and did not believe in Him, nor receive His doctrine. Matthew 11:24; Luke 10:12 For as He gave by His advent a greater privilege to those who believed on Him, and who do His will, so also did He point out that those who did not believe in Him should have a more severe punishment in the judgment; thus extending equal justice to all, and being to exact more from those to whom He gives the more; the more, however, not because He reveals the knowledge of another Father, as I have shown so fully and so repeatedly, but because He has, by means of His advent, poured upon the human the greater gift of paternal grace.

    The bible means what the bibles says, just like no one will convince me that all the references and even sizes given in the old testament of the giants is not true. Look it up on a search and read each one.

    Now what this means as far as now goes, probably is not what a lot of the fringe ones are saying, that I do not know, but that does not change what the bible says. Whether or not this could or would happen again, like I said really I do not know, but sin is still sin and still going on. Paul says the church will judge the angels as well.

    1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
    1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
    1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

    This is just like the timing of the rapture/catching up, it is not a salvation issue, nor should it be. I will never be convinced that it took billions of years for God to do what he says he did in 7 days either, but many bible believing ones now say that they do believe it was not just 7 days. Well all of us can be accountable for our own studies and growth in the Lord Jesus.

    This was something, of course I was never taught. As well I was always taught the pre tribulation rapture when I was young, and now I cannot find it anywhere in the bible.

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  64. The reason I went and started reading Irenaeus and the other early writers was because someone on the fulfilled prophecy site quoted him and his writings twisted around to support the pretrib rapture. I went through everything he had written and found they had taken bits of paragraphs and posted them all out of context, and then called the prewrath people a bunch of liars for saying it was not taught before margaret mcdonald.

    Irenaeus, never once supported that the saints would not be here for antichrist. Just read it for yourself and you will find out in the last of his books, Book V.

    Now I am done with this one.

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  65. 2Sa 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.
    2Sa 21:20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.
    2Sa 21:21 And when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea the brother of David slew him.
    2Sa 21:22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.

    So if Goliath was not a giant, just a bully and a tyrant, then the story of how David slew him does not have very much meaning does it?

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  66. This will hopefully be my last comment on this post as it looks like everything discussed here is starting to get out of context. I never refuted or disagreed that there were giants. There are lots of archaeological proof that giants did exist. I disagree with the idea that these giants were some mystical half breed between humans and demons as some claim Genesis 6 states.

    As said before, the word in Gen 6 for giant (the word Nefel were the word Nephilim originated from) is bully or tyrant. If you don’t believe me, look at it for yourself in the original Hebrew. The word for giant used for Goliath is the following:

    רפה רפא
    râphâ’ râphâh
    raw-faw’, raw-faw’
    Probably the same as H7497; giant; Rapha or Raphah, the name of two Israelites: – Rapha.

    So yes, there were giants, but the original words in Hebrew that we just call giant today had different meanings.

    It is interesting to note that the word Nefel is only used in Gen 6:4 and Numbers 13:33. The rest of the time when giant or giants are mentioned, the word rapha is used. And then we have one account in Job 16:14 were the following word is used:

    H1368
    גּבּר גּבּור
    gibbôr gibbôr
    ghib-bore’, ghib-bore’
    Intensive from the same as H1397; powerful; by implication warrior, tyrant: – champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), strong (man), valiant man.

    So we have three different giants: a tyran (Nefel)t, a giant (Rapha) and a warrior/valiant/mighty man (Gibbor).

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  67. This is what I was referring to. Quote –

    “Just one question, if you go to a church on Sunday, or visit a website, and the pastor or writer tells you that satan and his demons are sons of God, just like Christians are sons of God will you feel comfortable? Do you feel good to think that satan is your brother in the spirit as you are both sons of God? Do you view demons in the 21st century as sons of God?

    If you answer yes to any of these question I will submit to you that you know not God.”

    Am I misquoting you? I think not!

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  68. Yes you are Agie.

    You said in the previous post:
    ——————————————————————————————————-
    Quite a claim Wickus to say that those who believe that angels are the sons of God are not Christians. Quite a claim, when it is pretty clear in Job 38 that it is angels that are being referenced there. Quite a claim regarding you do not know anything about me or the others on here. I believe the authorized version of the King James Bible. Job tells us they are angels, PERIOD. There is no mysticism involved. The Bible tells us spiritual forces are at work. The Bible tells us that angels both good and bad were here on earth. The Bible tells us they will be here in the future. This is all in the Bible
    ———————————————————————————————————-

    Now you have quoted me saying the opposite of what you you are accusing me of. According to your first post I said that those who believe that angels are the sons of God are not Christians. Now you quote me talking about demons being the sons of God and someone who believes that does not know God.

    Agie, angels are not demons, just like cats are not dogs. I ask you again to read the post slowly and show me again were I did say what you think I have said. You are reading “angel” were I wrote “demon” in the original post.

    And hey, the written words on a website can sound harsh. I am not angry at you if you maybe think that I am. I promise you if we were sitting around a table discussing this, both of us would have been laughing by now about a misunderstanding.

    Bless you

    Wickus

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  69. A few points:

    Sons of God can refer to angels or humans – If you do not think so then Job 1, Job 2, & Job 38 tell me otherwise. No human has ever just went into the presence of the Lord. The Lord may have presented himself, but no human just walks up to God as far as I know.

    Angels do not marry – pretty clear

    Angels are asexual in Heaven – pretty clear

    Angels can appear as men on earth – this is pretty clear. We know that some filthy men wanted to have their way with a couple of angels. Lot even offered up his own daughters so that his guests would not be defiled. He and the wicked men must have thought the angels could have sex.

    Matthew 22_29-30 – Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    Jesus said in the above verse as angels are “in heaven”. This does not state if they are on earth if they can or not. Now, I know they were not supposed to have sex with humans. Maybe that is why certain angels were locked up for committing the sin of leaving there own habitation. I know earlier Jude 1:6-7 was discussed, but I do not think if full detail. The verse is as follows:

    Jude 1:6-7 – And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    What I remember being discussed was the sins of the citizens of those two cities. But look at the second word….as. That is a strong word in the Bible. In the previous verse it was speaking of the angels who left their habitation and then it goes on to say even as….This leads me and many others to believe they were committing similar detestable acts as those in Sodom and Gomorrha.

    One thing to consider here is we know angels have left their habitation before. We know that angels have visited earth and were not condemned. This leads me to believe that it was not just coming down to earth that was the sin. Hmmm, I wonder what the sin was?

    My guess is that angels do not eat food in heaven since Jesus is the bread of life. I could be wrong here. Yet, the angels that visited Abraham ate while on earth. What they do in heaven does not translate to what they can do on earth.

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  70. Inheritance is the key to “sonship”. Angels although not created in the image of God have and maintain their inheritance of “sonship” and eternal life through obedience.

    So, no Wickus, Satan is not a “son of God”…..but…..when he was Lucifer he WAS a “son of God”.

    We were not “sons of God” but NOW we are through faith in Christ. NOW we Have have the inheritance of eternal life as ALL “sons of God” do have and maintain.

    The angels that fell also WERE “sons of God” and now they are not….they, along with their NEW Father…the Father of Lies have been “disowned” by God

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  71. The angels that fell, ref Jude and 2Peter, are not Demons.

    Demons are the tragicly damned and spirit entities that remained after the death of those who were the offspring (giants) of the fallen angels.

    So Demons have not nor ever will be “son’s of God”. they have never had nor ever will have the inheritance of eternal life.

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  72. Maybe I must just try to explain again:

    First of all, the sons of God in Job and other places CAN refer to angels as they are in His presence rejoicing His creation.Clearly they are not involved in sin. The rest of this comment will be about Gen 6 ONLY and with no reference to any other angels.

    Now, the sons of God in Gen 6 is sinning. Therefore they can not be angels as angels do not sin. In that case they are fallen angels. Fallen angels are demons. Jesus calls their leader the devil and satan, the enemy, the deceiver, the father of lies, the killer. Jesus died to free us from Satan, his demons, sin and death.

    Now if someone says that Gen 6 refers to fallen angels (demons), and those demons are the sons of God, I will say they do not know God. God can not be the Father of demons and angels. That will make God the author and originator of sin.

    Sorry, but I will NEVER be convinced that God is the father of the Gen 6 demons. That borders in blasphemy. That is why I reject the teaching that those sons of God are fallen angels.

    Just think it over prayerfully Agie.

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  73. The key is “WERE”. Do you realize that Gen 6 is at least 800 years after Adam’s fall? Do you really think that after Lucifer and the angels fell the Holy Spirit will still refer to them as sons of God? No my friend, not at all.

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  74. I don’t think I’ve made anything up. Please explain how the angels that fell are bound in hell and are still running around on earth at the same time……do you think they are omnipresent?

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  75. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    How long after Gen 6 is this ref from Is. 14 to Lucifer as the Bright and Morning Star?

    God, the Holy Spirit lives outside of time. His ref to the fallen angels as “sons” BEFORE they fell is fine with me.

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  76. tribber, again with all due respect, you are grasping at straws. 🙂

    You know, the Bible is a wonderful book. You can almost get everything out of it. Did you know the Bible proof that God is an astronaut in a spaceship? Did you know the Bible says its fine to drink? Did you know the Bible says that it is fine for a man to marry many wives?

    Al this I can proof with Scripture, but I know it is not so.

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  77. I see nothing about the angels that fell in Gen. 1

    I’m not given a date either by knowing the age of Noah.

    Can you just give me the scripture and verse directly?

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  78. I don’t think I’ve made anything up. Please explain how the angels that fell are bound in hell and are still running around on earth at the same time……do you think they are omnipresent?

    What answer have you for this?

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  79. Tell me, who is the snake that tempted Eve?

    I know Satan fell when He deceived Adam and Eve……that event proves nothing as to when the rest of the angels fell……….that IMO occurred at the account given in Gen 6.

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  80. Can you? I can, but I think we are going so off topic that we are soon gonna discuss thermodynamics. It really does not help to jump from one point to another. It is confusing for you and me and fore someone reading this. It accomplishes nothing.

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  81. Shorttribber said:

    I’m not given a date either by knowing the age of Noah.

    Can you just give me the scripture and verse directly?

    Wickus says:

    Gen 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
    Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

    Lamech was Noah’s father. He grew up to be 750 years and he was younger than Adam. This is were I get my approximate 800 years from.
    —————————————————————————————
    Shorttribber said:

    I know Satan fell when He deceived Adam and Eve……that event proves nothing as to when the rest of the angels fell……….that IMO occurred at the account given in Gen 6

    Wickus says: Wrong. Satan fell, THEREFORE he tempted EVE. I will leave it up to you to proof that the rest of the 1/3rd of angels only fell about 800 years minimum after Satan. There is not a trace of something like that in the Bible. I can not proof or disproof something that is not there.

    Shorttribber, may I ask you, do you read the Bible as the Word of God or as a mystical book full of mysteries? You really are questioning the basics of Christian believes.

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  82. Wickus says: Wrong. Satan fell, THEREFORE he tempted EVE. I will leave it up to you to proof that the rest of the 1/3rd of angels only fell about 800 years minimum after Satan. There is not a trace of something like that in the Bible. I can not proof or disproof something that is not there.

    Shorttribber, may I ask you, do you read the Bible as the Word of God or as a mystical book full of mysteries? You really are questioning the basics of Christian believes.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………
    The “trace” you say is not there is in Gen 6. and I do not see it as “mystical” when comparing the plain reading of Jude and 2Peter.

    I already said Satan fell when he tempted Eve……so………

    I read the Bible as the infallible FINAL Word of the absolute will of God that can only be truly known completely and proven by Him alone until we see Him face to face.

    I see no “trace” in scripture that the rest of the angels Beside Satan fell when Satan fell.
    So prove otherwise…………because I have given you several scriptures to support the timing of their fall and what that fall was……..but you have given none to support the timing of their fall other than your unsupported opinion that they fell with Satan and at the same time but no scripture states any such thing.

    Your opinion seems more mystical to me.

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  83. So who created satan? the devil? is he not an angel who fell? So would God not be his father/creator? is there another creator/god/father other than one? They were sons of God before they sinned and fell, that makes sense to me. How else could be fallen?

    Wickus: “Now if someone says that Gen 6 refers to fallen angels (demons), and those demons are the sons of God, I will say they do not know God. God can not be the Father of demons and angels. That will make God the author and originator of sin.
    Sorry, but I will NEVER be convinced that God is the father of the Gen 6 demons. That borders in blasphemy. That is why I reject the teaching that those sons of God are fallen angels.
    Just think it over prayerfully Agie.”

    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    God gives everyone the choice to love him and follow him. Even the angels I do believe, at least that is what I read from the bible. Did Judas have a choice to betray Jesus or not to betray HIM?

    Sorry, Wickus but your argument makes no sense to me here at all.

    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Jesus is the only begotten son, and the one who could pay the price for sin and give us salvation.

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  84. Eze 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
    Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    Who is this scripture referring to? Is this referring to the King of Tyrys, a man, or to Satan?
    A man or an anointed cherub

    Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

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  85. … this is heavy and mostly over my head for now,…but i scanned the long list of comments and i think it may have been TEST, who pointed out that the distinction existed clearly btwn the MEN and the sons of god in gen.6:2/// i can’t help but speak out and say that to me, the days of genesis ect.,… seem absurd, but who am i to say. i look thru dark glass and my vision is obscured. i mean to say, OBSCURED., as in limited in my capability to see all the way thru and fully understand the WHY of it all-so it does seem absurd from this position. it reminds me of mythology, as in make-believe. oh well, one day i suppose i’ll know in full and the mystery will be solved. I do find it peculiar tho, that we have so much ufo hype in our world/ and the hollywood media machine[prince of the airwaves,driven?] seems to be doing its best to condition us to accept aliens/ and if anyone has looked into project Blue Beam, on the use of hologram technology to possibly be used by the Beast’s deceptive new world order wizards to create an image[of the beast] to worship in accordance w/ signs and lying wonders, so as to [if possible] deceive even the very elect,..faking a return of jesus in the clouds and maybe a false rapture to go along w/ this antichrist image LIFELIKE projection, that may appear to be able to bring down fire from heaven? as anything is possible in the sophisticated world of modern day technological wizardry, which is ever available to the new age activist-occultist global elite magicians…get it? they may then pull off a ufo alien dramatization and tie it in to the false[ new age ] messiah/ antichrist figure, to deceive the world into believing a lie!!! falling prey to a strong delusion, many will be deceived. / i mean whooo knows. i know it too, may sound absurd,…but if you use your imagination along w/ what scripture says about the Delusion that is coming,…perhaps you could see it as an actuality,…or rather a false actuality! ///Tom Horn, Chuck Missler and soo many other ?sound- minded christians propose the ideas as valid. surely lots of you all have come across this in your searches. think, Microchips/ elf waves/ mind- control holographic imagery…..its the grand illusion, thats coming to take you prisoner…SHOWDOWN AT BIG-SKY! …as in the words of the ‘supper’s ready’ sond, by Peter Gabriel and the old original Genesis band,…” He brings down the fire, from the skys…you can tell he’s doing well, by the look in human eyes,…better not compromise, it won’t be easy”…..! / its here folks, and its wierd,…of this, you can bet your neck!/ God be with you, tony

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