Unsealed Prophecy

Paul Washer “exposed”.

I have been involved in a heated debate the past 24 hours. I have been called false, serving false gods, unsaved and much more. I want you to read the following statement by a watchman on Facebook:
Kerrigan Skelly
This is why I will never post anything from Paul Washer, no matter how much “good” is in the video/audio/article: In my estimation, Paul Washer has led more people to the false teachings of Calvinism in the last 5-10 years than John MacArthur, John Piper, R.C. Sproul and James White combined. And Calvinism will lead many people to the very destruction of their souls, that many Calvinists think …they are “saved” from.He preaches “hard” and then speaks out the other side of his mouth. This is VERY DANGEROUS. It allows people to think that they can “hate sin” (have bad feelings about it), while still sinning every day in thought, word and deed. I believe that this is the “testimony” of most “christians” and that is precisely WHY Washer is so appealing to most “christians”. He is simply “tickling” their ears…maybe not in the same sense that a Rob Bell or some other False Teacher would, but that is what he is doing. Once again, he makes “christians” think (by his preaching) that they can “hate” sin and still engage in it EVERY DAY!

Stay away from him Saints and definitely don’t promote him to others. You may be discerning enough to avoid Calvinism, but there are thousands out there that aren’t. What about them? Shouldn’t we love them as we want to be loved? The end of some of Washer’s sermons (people being saved/edified) does NOT justify the means of posting his sermons. In other words, just because “some good” has been done through Washer’s sermons, doesn’t mean we should post them. I’d rather never post a sermon at all than post one of his.

Now I want you to watch the video that he use as proof of his statement:

The question being asked to Paul Washer is a very difficult one that many stumble over and many have different views about it. I can also answer the question with the light I have on it, but I may be missing something. My question is, does the way Paul Washer answered this question make him a false teacher or is Mr Watchman on Facebook busy with a witch hunt? And Mr Watchman, if you by accident read this, feel free to join in.

Your honest views will be appreciated.

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76 Comments

  1. Tony

    Let me suggest something a bit radical: both Calvinism and Arminianism are legitimate theological positions. The Bible can be interpreted to support both of them. So we just have to accept that this is something that Christians disagree over. It is therefore both wrong and arrogant to dismiss the one we disagree with as a “false teaching”. Furthermore, because there is a divide on this subject, I’d suggest that whatever our personal convictions are, we should hold them lightly and not be defined by them.

  2. Thank you Tony. Wise words, and I agree. This does not make any Christian a false teacher but cause division.
    Just to be clear, this person kept on labeling me as a Calvinist although I am not one.

  3. The vast majority the Protestant church (until about 100 years ago) believed in the doctrine of predestination….today, the vast majority of the “church” is both biblically illiterate and of the Armenian persuasion…coincidence? I don’t think so. I grew up very “Armenian” and argued the point more than a few times. One morning while studying God’s word at my kitchen table, I came across the verse that said I was chosen before the foundations of the world….I began to ponder the implications and it was as if God caused scales to literally fall from my eyes…I saw the glorious, liberating and oh so humbling truth that my salvation depended on Him, down to the “choosing”. It left me in such a broken state, truly “but for God”. You see, I was dead in my trespasses and sins…really dead! Dead people cannot choose anything….but one day God woke me up, turned my spiritual light on and said “Jackie, wake up, I’m calling you, you are mine!”. As the songs says, “my chains fell off, my heart was free, I rose went forth and followed Thee”. Ephesians and Romans 8, 9 and 10 are so very clear…yes, we can agree to disagree, and Armenians are also “in the faith” but this doctrine is both extremely important and it’s implications are far reaching and profound.

    When we are saved, we are natural Armenians, we naturally think we decided to choose Christ, however, it’s not until we study Romans, Ephesians (and other passages) that we understand the process of salvation, these scriptures are clear, God chose and His grace is irresistible. I cant tell you how liberating and freeing this glorious treasure has been! You see, if I had nothing to do with my salvation to start with, I have nothing to do to keep it…He is the Author and Finisher of my faith!

    This is why we can look to the dark clouds looming across the horizon and have no fear, he who began the work in me, will complete it, all the way to glory……. Christ alone!!!!!!!

  4. andre' leibee

    thanks for posting this. oh this is a big topic! i know that the Sovereignty of God is bigger than the finite mind of man can grapple with but i have found it a wonderful answer to this question in what spurgeon said long ago—-spurgeon, when asked to reconcile the difference between calvinism and arminianism, replied, “i wouldn’t try. i never reconcile friends”. he once described the gates of heaven with the words “whosoever will” overhead, and on the other side after passing through was written “for the elect.” i am satisfied that God is perfectly Just. He does not think like us-His ways and thoughts are too high for us the Bible declares. if i perish it is because i was condemned already-and when offered Light-and every man is offered Light-that is how we know we are evil (convicted) in the first place and know we are without excuse-refused His Grace to repent and believe. every man on earth has tasted the goodness of God in their lives-it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance-please read romans 2:3-16. also romans 11:22. (look how many times God gave pharoah the Space and Grace to repent and let His people go but pharoah took every opportunity to only harden himself against God. that was not God’s fault–so God let him have his choice to be hard against God and perish for it). each person can deliberately refuse God’s Love & Light for himself. (God knows–not us–at what point a life is held accountable-a baby does not know to repent but is saved because God is Good). God’s Son was freely given to the whole world-john 3:16-21. the Son of Man came offering Himself for every man….i see the Trinity of God in john 3:16. God the Father loved the whole world. Jesus the Son freely gave Himself away for the saving of the whole world. the Holy Spirit of God gives (john 16:8) as a gift-the believing to a heart-any heart in the whole wide world-that it may not perish but take the offer of everlasting life. we all qualify as sinners so we all qualify for His Grace to be shown us. but who (?) will take what He has so freely offered becomes our personal question……..God’s White throne Judgment will prove to the unconverted unconvinced that He gave Great Grace when the books are opened! in hell they will know Who they refused–sadly they could have/should have known before death made their choice final! God is Sovereign—-get over it people! that is when we can fall on our faces and can know His Tender Mercies because His Son took my/your place of punishment and let us go free! hallelujah! what a Savior! what a Great and Awesome God is the Lord.

  5. andre’ leibee…..I agree, this is one huge can of worms! Yes, Charles Spurgeon, also known as the prince of preachers, did indeed make that statement, yet taking this one line out of all of the many volumes and sermons that Spurgeon (a 5 point Calvinist ) had to say on the topic of election could be oversimplifying it a bit.

    *You mention Pharaoh….according to scripture, God was NOT giving Pharaoh time and space to repent, in fact, God was the one hardening Pharaoh’s hard for His own glory and purpose.

    * You mention John 3:16, yet in Jesus’ high priestly prayer, He did not pray for the world but for those whom the Father had given to Him…and of those He will not lose one.

    There is a common grace available to all the world, God sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous, however, there is a special, irresistible grace bestowed on those whom are God’s elect, chosen before the foundation of the world.

    I know, it doesn’t sound fair, Paul understood this and addressed the fairness issue in Romans…..9:14 ‘What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” SO THEN IT DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE MAN WHO WILLS OR THE MAN WHO RUNS BUT ON GOD WHO HAS MERCY. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth”. So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires’

    This doctrine is not simple or one that makes people comfortable but it is clear in scripture, Brothers and sisters can certainly continue to fellowship, although they may disagree. I have found this truth so glorious and liberating……..yes, Oh what a Savior!!!

  6. romalynnstar

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Jesus chose Judas, was then Judas not able to choose to follow Jesus or betray Him? I do not like Calvin or any of his writings because he wrote what he thought the bible was saying. Which is something that many still fall into. To me the word of God is enough, I do not need to read all of these reformers or hear the sermons to be told what the bible is saying.

    From what I read on calvin and reformed theology I think it is called, I never liked what I read and he also wrote quotes into the Geneva bible I think, or this is what I read. Or made paraphrases of it.

    The Holy Spirit gives regeneration

    Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
    Joh 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

    Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.
    Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
    Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
    Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
    Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
    Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
    Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
    Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
    Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    I do not like to take on labels of either of these two theologies, that apparently two men came up with.

    I believe what the word of God says.

  7. tony tarr

    listen to that!

  8. romalynnstar

    Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
    Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
    Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

  9. Nkosazana

    God’s choice is that all men should come to him,…but he gives us the choice, and not all will come. The provision for salvation is for all. But the result is not the same for all, for we must make decisions, and the decisions have ramifications. Calvinism and Armenian-ism are not comfortable partners. But in these last days hopefully many of both persuasions will find their way home via the Cross. It is a time for Christians to stand together, not to feud, not to fight. Our numbers are few, and about to be fewer…we must encourage each other to make every effort to find ourselves watchmen attending to our various tasks, faithful and helpful to each other. The days for arguing need to be put behind us. The Kind is coming. All hail the King of Glory. Nkosazana

  10. Nkosazana

    Sigh….the King is coming…A.. hail the King of Glory….

  11. andre' leibee

    thanks for your wonderful response pilgrim. i do agree more than you might think. in that common grace given freely to all is the fact that only His chosen will answer that call. that is my point. He moves any heart at will but never violates anyone’s freewill choice. we are made in His Image-after all-so He built in choice for the sake of Worshiping Him or not. He made a choice to make us knowing we would rebel and He chose to be nailed to the old rugged Cross whether we respected His choice or not. the way He came and died is especially repugnant to the prideful because that addresses how much pride deserved to die instead. judas was chosen as one of the twelve but proved that he did not like God’s way of saving so he opted out-but not before Jesus said friend do you betray Me with a kiss? Jesus loved and chose judas knowing he would be the son of perdition. i think that is the picture of whosoever will but also only the elect prove to be His when all is said and done. the world can accept Jesus on it’s terms not on His-but God says-choose! what will you do with My Son? all of life as we live it everyday beggs that question. if only the elect would even hear the call how would they know what-actually Who-they have refused? before he had to leave heaven even the devil knew Who he was refusing. i mention pharoah because it highlights that God was working in that scene with His chosen people and it impacted the world around them. pharoah could see His Sovereignty was working in his circumstance too but he was letting that opportunity from God work his own choice against him-searing his conscience more with each opportunity until God said enough. rock hard-done. God does not use us as pawns but He does let us enable ourselves against Him. and we know this is the state of most in the world. loving the darkness keeps their hearts from letting the Spirit work Grace toward them. that is why Jesus spoke in parables too. so hearing they would not hear and seeing they would not see. Wisdom-the fear of the Lord is the beginning of that-cries out in the streets-a universal cry for takers-many are called but few are chosen the Bible says. i thank God that i am chosen. what comfort and freedom in that just as you say-yet i remember that i came out from among “them”. i was no better and no worse-just simply moved by God’s Spirit to know that i needed the Savior and God gave me Mercy. how did i know i needed the Savior? like everybody-my conscience was opened to be convicted by His perfect Law. even before the 10 commandments were given to moses men knew a Law written on their hearts from God and all are violators. my mind was being shown it’s pride against God. my body was a manifest that the Truth was in my members condemning me. that is why i referenced the particular verses in romans ch 2 which speaks to and about the world without excuse. yet—He called me out from darkness into the Light. He gave me faith the believe Him-it was not of my own. i think that quote from spurgeon-though i know only a little of his writings-only says that God has the Sovereign Right to call a whole world to come to His Table and chose then-without an apology-it’s Seating. it is both. so who could argue with that? and you what? i have a freewill-like you-to refuse that call and disqualify myself to be chosen or i can heed that call and that proves i am chosen. (oh praise God He saved and keeps me as His Own) so really this is not a can of worms to me at all. God does not need to explain Himself to me about who is saved and who is not. He is Just and He is Good—oh yes—He is Sovereign—the Perfect Balance of it all. i love this discussion because we do not lose a thing for exploring that vastness and mystery of God. it is wonderful that we know His Goodness and Salvation and share that here.

  12. romalynnstar

    Nkosazana
    thanks
    yes so true, just read your bible, tell others about Jesus salvation for them, and that He is returning and. the gospel of the kingdom will be preached

    people need to hear both parts, salvation and his return

  13. justasheep

    I saw this debate a couple days ago on Facebook and was really puzzled by Kerrigan’s comments. He kept on claiming that Calvinism was some dangerous heresy. Being of a more Calvinist bent myself, I was perplexed. As those above have said before – both Calvinism and Arminianism are logical conclusions that can be drawn from the text. I for one am more of the position that the tension between the two is more a function of the limitations of our frail human intellect to comprehend a Holy, Omnicient, Omnipresent, Limitless, Matchless God – and not a real philosophical tension. Did God choose me – yes, before the foundation of the World. Did God give me a free will to accept or reject his Son’s sacrifice on my behalf – yes. Do those statements seem to contradict each other? Sure they do, but it’s as much a function of me being a man who’s only lived about 40 years so far with a 3lb brain that’s limited by the constraints of linear time and space. Our response – humble ourselves and accept that while all scripture is true, not all scripture is easy to understand in our present condition.

  14. Amen.
    Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom – let your email find you!

  15. I have just realized who this is that I was trying to debate, thanks Justasheep. Not that I have ever heard of him, but apparently Kerrigan Skelly is “well known” by others.

    http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/ (His home page)

    And here is some disturbing information about Skelly:

    Kerrigan Skelly Denies Original Sin And Total Depravity
    I found this very disturbing video of Kerrigan Skelly teaching young children that Total Depravity is unbiblical. Compare his 10 part video series to James White and Paul Washer’s videos. Dr. White and Paul Washer are clearly teaching Biblical Truth while Skelly’s teachings are complete heresy. Pray for this man and all those young children that are listening to him.

    http://bloodtippedears.blogspot.com/2008/08/kerrigan-skelly-denies-original-sin-and.html

    Surely there has been some controversy in his teachings. I still wonder why a pastor can be so rude when he is confronted?

    Lets just leave it. I don’t want to turn this into a witch hunt. Satan is having a bash with these Christians divided against themselves.

  16. Wickus wrote, “Lets just leave it. I don’t want to turn this into a witch hunt. Satan is having a bash with these Christians divided against themselves.”

    I have been praying and slightly biting the proverbial tongue for some days now relating to what the true and real deception is around us and how that deception is able to corrupt the seed planted in the hearts of new converts. I don’t know anything about Mr. Skelly, but I do know when it comes to “plucking” out of that which was meant to be kept intact for new born believers, I find it gives me just enough reason to express my thoughts here.

    Some time ago, I vocalized my understanding for the Paul Washer videos being played here etc. and was (for lack of a better word), misunderstood.
    Again, I have nothing to lose by standing up in some form of indignation for the lie of the Lordship Salvationist doctrine. These types along with a few others are the very ones who worry me most in Christianity; those who deny the power thereof, those who state how to “earn” ones way to heaven; unlike some of the others who have been the topic of an ongoing joking and jesting of circus deception. I have witnessed first handedly how the creeping in of false doctrine plays out in a congregation when sin is mixed with truth and people fail to acknowledge it. I have seen how cunningly and intricately false doctrine slowly destroys the lives of others even to the point where our church pastor took his own life because he fell into the sin of self condemnation; convinced he was not good enough (works) and because of the horrifying effects of how evil comes in like a flood, I’ve learned the hard way of what zero tolerance means when it comes with playing with the one true Gospel; I’ve even less pride about saving my Christian reputation too, so I’ve got nothing to lose except, well…maybe a friend or two who were at best and quite possibly, never really friends at all, so here goes…

    Lordship Salvation is the unbiblical teaching that a person MUST cease from a sinful lifestyle to be saved (by way of ones own free choice). Lordship Salvationists pervert the true meaning of the word “REPENT” in the Word of God. Whereas Biblical repentance means that a person recognizes their guilt of sin (Romans 3:19); Lordship Salvationists corrupt the meaning of the word, teaching that a person must “cease” first from living a sinful lifestyle to be saved. This is unscriptural. God does not ask us to give up anything to be saved. Eternal life is the gift of God (Romans 6:23). Salvation is receiving, not giving. God gave us His only begotten Son, Jesus, to pay our debt of sin. All we have to do to be saved is to acknowledge our guilt of sin, coming to God on that basis; believing on Jesus, the Christ, the Son of God, to forgive our sins (Acts 10:43) and learn of him. His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
    In Mark 1:15, Jesus didn’t say, “repent ye, and TURN away from your sins.” No, Jesus clearly stated, “repent ye, and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.” Right at that exact place is where the difference between darkness and lightness is chosen; it’s where the battle begins for a man’s soul. It is plain to see that Biblical repentance is a change that takes place in ones mind and heart concerning sin and unbelief by the quickening of the Holy Spirit, which causes that soul to turn in simple child-like faith to the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness and salvation. Jesus never once said to a person, “Give up your sin and I’ll save you.” No, rather, Jesus said, “Go, and sin no more” AFTER, after, after making them whole (John 8:11). All God asks is that we come for salvation through His dear Son (John 3:16) and learn of Him. This may seem like a very small detail, but again, really…it’s the difference between life and death.

    We must be extremely careful when we tell lost sinners that they NEED to be willing to TURN from their sins to be saved. I have read many Gospel tracts that give the impression that a person MUST forsake their sins to be saved—which is NOT true at all. A person DOES need to repent of their sins to be saved, but that change begins in the mind and heart and may take some time to show in that person’s personal life (1st Peter 2:2) unlike what some of these ones preach. The ONLY repentance which God requires of a man to be saved is for that man to acknowledge his sinful condition and; thus, recognize his desperate need for a Savior, Jesus the only One who creates that change in the lives of sinner and saint.
    Once a man becomes a new creature in Christ, THEN and ONLY THEN he begins to change. Lordship Salvationists are sanctimonious (i.e., hypocritical in their beliefs) in that they are sinners themselves. The entire notion that a lost sinner must give up sin to be saved presents a serious indictment against Lordship Salvationists … “For all have sinned…” (Romans 3:23). Let he who is without sin among you, teach Lordship Salvation.

    A changed life is the FRUIT of genuine repentance and not a part of the ROOT of saving-faith.

    Are there 2 Gospels?

    1. The Gospel of John MacArthur, Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron, Paul Washer, Jack Chick, Aiden Tozer, and others, requires that a person FORSAKE (on their own) (or be willing to forsake) their lifestyle of sin FIRST, make amends (like in AA recovery), and change their ways, as a prerequisite to saving faith and salvation.

    2. The Biblical Gospel teaches that we are saved solely by Christ’s righteousness that comes upon us by way of the Holy Spirit (Romans 10:3-4), and that no self-righteousness of any kind is required (Titus 3:5), because we have none to offer (Isaiah 64:6); neither does a person have to quit any sin to be saved (Romans 4:5-6).

    Please remember that Biblical repentance IS A CHANGE OF MIND and the Spirit of the Lord takes the scales off the eyes to see; enlightens the heart does not make it heavy. A person who is genuinely saved now has a different attitude by no work of his/her own. If a man/woman is a true Born-Again Christian, he/she won’t have the haughty attitude that he/she can continue in open sin with no consequences. Each born again believer has the Spirit of Christ living within (Romans 8:9). This is the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 12:8 makes clear that God will CHASTISE His children. Some won’t allow that to happen…too righteous for that; they’ve already been predestined, so their bible says. The Holy Spirit always convicts the true believer of unrepentant sin. In sharp contrast, the heathen unsaved in the world knows not God, and sins with no remorse or concern for the things of God. How can he/she turn and find salvation?

    In a nutshell, lordship salvation puts the cart before the horse. What an ultimate insult to the Lord Jesus of which I will have not part of. Please know that I am not here to start any kind of contention or discussion – it’s my own understanding of the matter.

  17. andre' leibee

    maybe i’m missing something here then (?) because i do not hear paul washer confusing justification and sanctification. we when get saved-born again-we are justified before God-thank You Jesus. but the walk thereafter is learning to walk in that newness of life-becoming sanctified-learning surrender to the Holy Spirit and growing in the Word of God more and more like Jesus in my inner man to mortify the deeds of the flesh. i did not notice what you speak of enforcing but thanks for your input.

  18. justasheep

    I’m not sure Enforcing – I read your post, and I think how you are characterizing the concept of “Lordship Salvation” is somewhat of a straw man. If someone believes that they somehow contribute to their salvation with works of some kind – that is clearly the worst kind of heresy, though I know it continues to happen in many churches that claim to be following Christ, though sadly are not.

    To lay this claim at the feet of Macarthur and others who preach that a man who is saved is being transformed is really not fair to is being taught.

    Without being evasive at all here is a Summary of Lordship Salvation: http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A114

    I don’t see how it’s works based at all.

    I do see how it’s illustrating this truth:
    And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18 ESV)

    If we are not being transformed and simply plodding along as “believers” in word only without any change in our life how can we say that we’ve really believed on who Jesus really is and been saved? To be clear – I’m not attacking you or any of the ideas you’ve presented Enforcing – the ideas you’ve presented as your own agree with the biblical text as far as I can see- and from my reading what some you call teaching “lordship salvation” have written. I think your ideas on salvation are correct, but I don’t see examples of the teaching that Macarthur et al are being accused of.

  19. I was busy writing a long comment, then decided to read the link to Grace to You provided by Justasheep. After reading it, I deleted my comment as I was repeating what he said.

    I am in hundred percent agreement with him.

  20. Enforcinghisgrace

    Thank you justasheep and Wickus too. No accusation; only observation. “pray for one another that ye may be healed.” rings true so that I’d what I am urged and will do. God bless..(.gee, second thought while hobbling off to work on a broken foot, I’m probably the one in need of prayer –hold in train…wait for me.) Have a blessed day!

  21. Hey, I must say that I had to read some comments here a few times. I am really learning some new terms, terms that I was not even aware existed. “Lordship Salvation” is one of them. Thanks for teaching me new things. :-)

  22. andre' leibee

    World Challenge Inc. – David Wilkerson Today
    David Wilkerson Today
    WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2011
    TWO KINDS OF LOVE
    by David Wilkerson
    [May 19, 1931 – April 27, 2011]

    The Father has two kinds of love: a general love for all sinners and a special love for all who are in His family. God’s general love for mankind can be embraced by anyone who comes to Him in repentance. But God’s heart is also filled with another kind of love—a distinctive, exceptional love for His children!

    God has always had a chosen people for Himself upon whom He bestowed His great love. Israel once was the sole object for this special love:

    “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you … [He] has brought you out with a mighty hand …” (Deuteronomy 7:6-8).

    God directed these words to Israel. Yet, if you have received Jesus as your Savior and Lord—if you have been adopted into God’s family and He is your loving Father—you too must come to grips with how special you are to Him! You are the recipient of God’s extraordinary love and here are His words to you:

    “You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy” (1 Peter 2: 9-10).

    At one time you were not an object of His special love, but now you are! You have been reconciled to the Father and He loves you deeply—right now, at this very moment!…………………..be blessed in this beautiful Truth everyone who loves the Lord! i love all of you too!, your sister andre’ (hey this copy and paste thing works good roma!)

  23. wc muller

    You often hear the term “food for the brain”, well I consider the post and comments something like “drink for the spirit”. I respect all views and interpretations of the Good Book and that is why I find this site so very interesting and appealing.
    I am so drawn to the Gospel of St. Matthew right now and as I read the words, clarity like I have never experienced before, is blazing through my mind. If anything, the blinders are coming off and my eyes are being opened like never before.
    The subject of sin, in my opinion is a touchy one and I can only offer this small contribution. ‘Acknowledging sin is short of the purpose as confronting sin is the sign of repentance.’

    “Then Jesus stopped, and called them, and said ‘What will you have me do for you ?’ They said to him, ‘Lord, that our eyes be opened.’ And Jesus, moved with compassion for them, touched their eyes; and at once they received their sight, and followed him.”
    St. Matthew, chapter 20, verses 33-34

    Peace my friends

  24. Wise words about sin. Very wise.

  25. justasheep

    And the Apostle Matthew was so keenly aware of his own sinful nature that in the Gospel written with his own hand he is only referred two twice – and both times associated with his former occupation as a tax collector, who were universally despised in that day (even more than they are now). I love that about Matthew, that he could honor his Lord’s humility by modelling it so thoroughly.

  26. wc muller

    Justasheep, I agree about St. Matthew as it just goes to show how the Lord ever so merciful, did not look at man’s past but at his present potential. St. Paul was another example of that as he was a raving fanatic against the early Christian church. He was recorded to have been involved in the stoning of St. Stephen and the persecution of other followers. It just proves to me how divine Jesus was and how He put His trust into men like this to spread His word. I guess the most astounding part to me is that they did it with such vigor that their names have held up through the sands of time right below His. I find this example of the Lord’s utter brilliance as it should be seen, a foundation for every person in this world. If you now follow His message and walk in His light, your past is just that, your past.

    Peace my friend

  27. romalynnstar

    Perhaps you should read a bit more history about John Calvin and what he did when he was ruling in Geneva. The Apostle Paul never told anyone in the church to have someone burned alive if they disagreed with him. Calvin allowed this to happen to Michael Servetus, who challenged the Roman Catholic doctrine of the trinity, and infant baptism. He fled Vienna under threat of death.Servetus arrived in Geneva, the city Calvin ruled, in July 1553, where he dwelt quietly for a while.As he was about to leave for Zurich, Calvin had him arrested.and imprisoned on the charge of blasphemy. Calvin was his accuser and his prosecutor and, urging for the death penalty. Nowhere in scripture are Christians told to put people to death, but to witness, shake the dust off your feet if they do not listen, or if they are proven to be heretics which is not an easy thing to do, to not have fellowship with them. Calvin became a dictator when he gained control of Geneva, just like the Popes before him. If I understand the history, Calvin believed that the church was to rise up and take over the world, much like many of the apostate churches today are teaching.

    Calvin believed in infant baptism, and the sacraments, very closely related to Roman Catholicism still from what I see.

    Calvin did not believe in the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on this earth, from the throne of David in Jerusalem, which is part of scripture:

    Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
    Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

    Did Jesus correct the disciples for asking this question? No he did not, he only let them know that at that time it was not for them to know. They were to await the sending of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

    Now I know many will disagree with me here, and that is ok, it does not matter. History is recorded.

    Paul persecuted the church, but the repented when Jesus revealed himself to him, and then he became the great apostle to the gentiles.

  28. Enforcinghisgrace

    Preach it, Roma!..Calvin was and still is soaked in Roman catholicism. Your words are music to my ears. Calvin was a betrayer of the faith that was once deliveted unto him, just like King James well, I better stop here…Amyway, thank you!

  29. Enforcinghisgrace

    One more little piece of info…

    http://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/igb.htm

  30. wc muller

    I have a lot to learn and an open mind is the only way to approach my quest. Thanks for providing paths to further my knowledge and expand my thinking to obtain the entire picture put forth as the link of ‘reformedreader’ was very informative. I was aware of how the Bible has been edited throughout the years but not to the extent described in the article.
    My knowledge of history is somewhat limited especially when it comes to the entire world and like every one else, everything I do know is from what man has decided to pass along censored or uncensored. I guess it is just a matter of one’s faith in man to set forth the truth and with that in mind, I am no way capable of finding out the truth on my own.

    Peace my friends

  31. Deliah

    Im a Christian and I dont agree with Calvinist doctrine at all. I think its a false doctrine made by some guy who misinterept a Bible scripture and built a church out of it. I dont understand election because we all have free will on rather we want to recieve Christ or not and He wants us to make that choice. If thats not the case then were all a bunch of robots being controlled by God who wants to damn most of the human race to Hell all for the good pleasure of His will according to Calvinism. What an offensive, ogarish way to protray the living God.

  32. Vic

    Clearly you don’t understand election or Calvinism. None of it teaches that we are little robots being controlled by God and that we don’t have a choice on salvation. It also does not teach that we do not have free will. But it does teach that God, before the foundation of the world were laid, elect those who he knew will choose His plan of salvation. The choice stays yours, but all-knowing God knew millions of years ago what you will choose. That is why Paul can write in the Bible that we were predestined to be called sons of God. It does not sound offensive or difficult or robotic to me.

  33. Anthony

    My opinion is, you guys got to study the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit 1st. What he said was 200% true…Men is evil…. God bless all Amen!

  34. jonjon

    Sometimes, even christians do the work of the devil. Calvinism is just what we call the doctrines of grace.

  35. raul

    I read all the comments and learnt a lot , I believe Jesus is the way the truth and the life. The call is for everyone, but its us who have to listen to his call because God has given us a free will (which suggests he is a loving and just god , not forcing anything). But few are chosen before hand(pre-destined), – Its not you but i have chosen you says the Word of the Lord.Salvation is to found through Jesus alone. The weightge of sin DEATH, and everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Then, Repent (Aramic meaning “Toubo”,turn back)meaning turn back to our original source GOD and Believe , you and your family would be saved. God is a Just God, everyone will be rewarded of his own works. Lets Go back to God , Yahweh. and without holiness none can see GOD. Peace. God Bless.

  36. Rochelle Scavella

    To all my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, let’s continue to love one another and Pray for each other, that we all will be ready on that great day.

  37. Well all i can say is the Bible teaches on God’s Sovereignty and human responsibility . We cannot chose but agree that this is the Bible. we can’t just decide what we want because our choices are always wrong unless God helps us. I believe the Bible and that is fianl

  38. thomas griffith

    The word of God is not a math equation. The tension all through His word is a mystery of our faith. Otherwise he would have sent us a form to fill out.(or a sinners prayer to pray)

  39. Street Preacher

    The Bible says that Jesus Christ is both God and man. I can find Scriptures to support both these facts. I could argue He is God 100% or I could argue His humanity 100%.
    But He is both. Salvation is the same.
    God calls, elects and we choose with free will. Why the extremes on either side?
    It is both. Just accept it in faith.

  40. Derl

    I read the post buy the video wouldn’t play.I usually find a lot of wisdom in other people’s responses but I haven’t the time to read them right now. I am not a Calvinist but I find Paul Washer Biblically accurate and very tough on sin which I feel like we need more and more in this day of Osteen and Warren. As a preacher and pastor I listen to his sermons because he challenges me and I need tough preaching and teaching not white washed nice stuff. I like Washer but he is fallible, he has to be because he’s not Christ. No matter how much I like a persons teaching or preaching the Bible is always our ultimate guide to truth. Just because you and I might disagree on points of doctrine doesn’t make either of us heretics and I feel like Paul Washer takes a lot of needless attacks from fellow Christians who are probably bothered by his blunt style of preaching.

  41. tony tarr

    such is life Derl, here on earth, as people, affected by the fall. So we continue to stive for ideals, until that which is perfect, comes! For now we must battle with the little man within., within each of us individually, as well as within each other. We seperate the wheat from the chaff and we press on in Christ letting iron sharpen iron as we WORSHIP HIM with HOPE rising over despair,…loving with all we got, in Jesus, amen. / [just saying] blessings to you…..

  42. Vic wrote
    “Clearly you don’t understand election or Calvinism. None of it teaches that we are little robots being controlled by God and that we don’t have a choice on salvation. It also does not teach that we do not have free will. But it does teach that God, before the foundation of the world were laid, elect those who he knew will choose His plan of salvation. The choice stays yours, but all-knowing God knew millions of years ago what you will choose. That is why Paul can write in the Bible that we were predestined to be called sons of God. It does not sound offensive or difficult or robotic to me.”

    These words are so well put and so much in agreement with scripture that anyone would be wise to accept them as reasonable and true.

  43. Gordon D G

    I believe that all human souls were created before the foundation of the World. And, sometime after Lucifer’s Rebellion, each of us were given a choice whether to stay true to GOD or to side along with Satan. Some chose GOD. Some chose to go along with Lucifer, influenced and mezmerized by his beguiling forked-tongue. And, still others chose GOD at first but then turned-coat on HIM to follow Lucifer after all. And, now, when GOD places each one of our souls on Earth (for all but Adam and Eve, that meant placed in the womb), we play out our personal Decision on Earth, as we did in Heaven. Although, for a relatively few it will change. But, MOST do stay true to their initial Decision made in Heaven. I know that this is taught by Mormons. But, I am not a Mormon. I believe that some denominations considered to be false DO have some truth mixed in with the false doctrines they teach. And, I believe that this is one of those truths. This is Divine revelation and understanding from GOD through HIS servants. And, this explains the seeming contradictions among the opposing views common in the Church on this matter.

  44. Amara

    I don’t see the problem we have here. When we hear false teachings and if we have the Spirit of the Son of the Living God living in us, we will not need any other (human) doctrinal knowledge to tell us that we should run from them. God’s foreknowledge before even the earth began is not in any way contradictory (nor heretic) with the result of the free gift of choice He has given each of His creatures. He is the end and beginning. Does it not then mean that He knows even the choices our unborn grandchildren will make (of their own volition) whether for or against His plan for them? So if even before they are born He goes on to say their hearts have been hardened, what is that to us? Is there any unrighteousness with God? If we understood that we are not able, in and of ourselves, to make any good decisions, then we would know to hand back the same free gift to the One who gave it to us. There would be no occasion then for confusion at all. And clearly there will remain things our finite minds will not contain, but if we needed the full understanding of EVERYTHING GOD to live for Him, then He would have provided as well. He has given us everything we need for life and godliness in the present life. The mysteries of God are deep, deeper than all our minds combined can contain so trying to understand the things of a never ending deep by carnal limitations is foolishness.

    We have a greater challenge in our hands brethren. It is with the subtle wolves who have disguised themselves as sheep in our Father’s house and are destroying the ones for whom Christ died and seeking to make the message of the gospel of no effect. We must overturn the tables of religion and religious men who put up a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. We must tear down the altars of money-changers and men who buy and sell in our Lord’s house and by the Spirit drive them out of our Father’s business. Their dealings do no belong in His house. Continuing to fight ourselves who believe (the true sheep among us) over understandings that we ourselves may not have fully trusted the Lord for illumination is exactly the ploy of Satan for division to keep us from the weightier matters of the fight of the faith of Christ. Again, we have a bigger work to do – the work of dethroning evil speakings on our pulpits, the work of tearing down ungodly ideologies and vain deceits, the work of partnering with God in heaven’s labors in snatching men away from hell into life in Christ, the work of shutting up every ugly rearing voice that tries to lay the law and prophets on the same plain as the Son of God. When we have time for “petty” things, it is because we may have become at “ease in Zion”. Let’s rise up and be done with lesser things of this life and give our lives up for the preaching and message of the undiluted, unadulterated, simple gospel of Jesus Christ. When this gospel alone is preached, the evidence is without question – be you Jew or Gentile, bond or free.

  45. Tony

    I am a new believer, and I am so confused that why there are so many doctrines about GOD. If some of them could be justified by Bible, say biblical doctrines, can they be unified or traced to the same base? If the biblical doctrines lead to totally different or even contrary results, how can we understand this situation? Finally, can we really know GOD?

  46. Nelster

    Tony, those are some really good questions and concerns.
    Biblical doctrines lead to different views sometimes because they are men’s understanding of what’s revealed about God.
    Although doctrines summarized by men are helpful sometimes, it is only so if God uses them to help us understand. We must be noble like the Bereans, to read and understand the Bible ourselves so we can discern what is true.

    Finally, yes we can really know God, because He has given us the Bible which talks about His attributes, and He has given us the Holy Spirit, which teaches us all truths, and helps us to think like the mind of Christ.

  47. nez

    Tony,
    John 17:3 “This is eternal life, TO KNOW YOU, the only true God and Jesus Christ you sent.” But to know God is to know Jesus. Give more time knowing Jesus both in prayers and reading the bible. God promise in Jeremiah, “You will seek me and find me if you will seek me with all your heart.” God bless you my friend, this is an exciting and glorious journey with God.”

  48. Andrew

    The Bible says we need the FULL counsel of God. If you listen to many of Paul Washer’s sermons I assure you in his balanced teaching (which is the type of teaching the Bible gives) he does not teach that a Christian can live in sin (even in thought). He teaches (like the Bible does) that Christians do sin (even in thought) but a true Christian is in a state of change that takes place over the course of the Christian’s life and that God continues to love, discipline and work with that Christian even when they do sin to continue to bring change in their life. When it comes to sins of the mind (sinful thoughts) the Bible addresses this in Christians as well. It says not to allow sin to reign in your life. It doesn’t say Christians wont have sinful thoughts/feelings/temptations at times, it says for the Christian not to allow those sinful thoughts/feelings/temptations to reign in their lives. So a Christian will battle their sin in the power of the Holy Spirit and a person who is not a Christian does not battle with sin. God does give Christians victory over the sin in their lives but I have never met a sinless Christian.

  49. tony tarr

    a preacher once told me, its one thing for a bird to land upon your head, but, you don’t have to allow him to build a nest there. Rebuking sinful thoughts,..giving satan no place. I’m with you Andrew

  50. Shelly

    Those bad thoughts creep into our minds, but we gotta push em away! Regarding my sin that came up here, God gave me a dream….in it a lady spoke to me…she told me I typed that bad stuff in my phone because I was molested as a little girl growing up and i had a freckle on my neck.

    Rings true.

    Freckles are spots…spiritually we wanna be without spot or wrinkle.

    The dream comforted and blessed me.

  51. tony tarr

    God luv ya Shelby, you are wonderful and your words allways bless me and push me towards the higher calling.

  52. Keruby

    I do NOT care about what denomitation u guys are talking about, all I care is about the truth. THE TRUTH WILL ALWAYS SET U FREE. God bless Paul Washer and everybody who preaches the gospel as its written. Thats why God gave us the gift of The Holy Spirit to desern the spirits. And most of this man teachings are TRUE! God does not seek denominations.

  53. jesuskid_95

    you may find my comment a bit crazy. but instead of going all out in a comment war or in a blatant post that puts a person down we remove the planks from our own eyes and look at the scripture to determine the truth as it is in there. also why don’t we do as the bible says and approach the person on their doctrinal “imperfections” before we go crazy and do what watchman did and make his disapproval public due to only one excerpt of the mans teaching. the bible says nobody is perfect except for God. I don’t care if you have been a Christian 60 days or 60 years there will still be some errors in your life. also paul washer tell us that we are to hate sin and in hating sin we want to be as far away from it as possible, this means that we turn from our sin and cease it. yes it may take time to cease sinning but that is the essence of his preaching to repent (turn from our sin) and believe the gospel

  54. When asked about “evolution”, I respond thusly:

    Evolution makes no attempt to explain where matter – stuff – came from. It can only attempt to explain what happened to it after that.

    In the same way, the Arminian view does not – cannot – explain where faith came from, it can only explain what happened AFTER that.

    Usually, the Arminian accusation against Calvinism completely skips over “regeneration”, and lands squarely in “the walk”, the life of the Christian AFTER conversion.

    The Calvinist view attempts to explain where that faith came from. The Arminian view attempts to explain what the believer does with that knowledge after it is received.

  55. While I’m not a big fan of Paul’s “style” (just a personal opinion), I don’t think he’s speaking anything false in this video. He’s pretty clear and biblical.

    The whole Calvinist/Arminian debate hinges on the word “foreknowledge”. It’s overwhelmingly clear that God chooses us for salvation, and like many said here, from before the foundation of the world (eternity past). The Arminian says that His choosing us was based on God’s foreknowledge in such that He basically “looked down the corridors of time to see who would choose Him and those people He predestined”

    One, the gr. word for “foreknowledge” is “proginosko” means to “choose beforehand” (see Rom. 8:29; 11:2; 1Pet 1:2; Acts 2:23).

    Two, Paul answers it quite well that man, being totally depraved, will NOT choose God without God first choosing Him. It’s impossible for man to choose God in His sin.

    Three, it just makes no logical sense, if you think about it, that God would do something like that. The Apostle Paul clearly refutes this notion when discussing the twins and God’s choice of Jacob over Esau.

    I recognize there are passages that “seem” to teach that man has the free will to choose Christ. However, all of these passages can be explained in context without misinterpreting them to show that man having a free will is not being taught. The same can’t be said of the passages teaching election.

    Yes, this is not a doctrine to divide over, but if a church is teaching the whole counsel of Scripture, one side is going to get pretty uncomfortable during those sermons. Sometimes, truth natural divides. It’s an unfortunate fact of our faith.

  56. Ingela

    I am convinced Paul Washer really loves the Lord and loves the Word.
    For this reason it disturbs me that he so lightly brushes off endtime prophecies by stating ‘Jesus could come tomorrow, or He could come in a thousand years’.
    (A statement mirrored in Rick Warrens ‘today or in a hundred years’.)

    Washer also wishes tat all reformed also were posmillennialists, like himself.
    Now, I don’t know too much about that view, but it seems to me they sincerely believe the millennial reign of Christ on earth has already happened?

    Washer has a message to the lukewarm, western church. But his escathology may well be his blind spot.

  57. Xtina

    I don’t know Paul Washer. But I watched my church split and scatter because a small group in our church banded together and did their own teachings. They were quoting this Paul Washer all the time. They condemned the Pastors and told people they weren’t saved because they weren’t doing what was righteous and also stated that God only listens to Holy and pure peoples prayers. It killed a lot of new belivers and confused the heck out of the rest – including me. The only thing that stopped me from being sided with them was that my testimony. I was a wreck and lost before I found Jesus and he radically transformed my life. They preached water baptism before holy spirit baptism – which stumbled me because I remember repenting to the Lord and being filled with the holy spirit – I was never the same. They would use the word and insist that if you didn’t ‘get it’ like the ‘got it’ you weren’t saved and going to hell.

    It was devastating to our community, church and families. I cant even describe the mess it produced. It sounded good, it looked good, it appeared just so good but the fruit of the people were smelly. Fighting, arguing, unloving, uncaring, arrogant, rude and destructive – especially to Christians. Eventually no one wanted to be around them and heaps left.

    Now I understand the ‘warm chrstianity’ and invading a passive attitude towards God and that’s prob why it seemed so good – anyone who wants to love God with al their heart just wants to do right and please him – but the way this group made it – it became heavy and burdensome. It great to be passionate about God – but not passionate about slamming Christians to the ground till they leave the churches weeping in terror and confusion.

    Its one of those things I wish on no church or community to go through :( It was painful. They follow an still do – paul washer a lot. Maybe it isn’t Paul Washer – I don’t know him – but what I do know is that when we think we have it all in order and sussed out – boxing God and exalting our opinion and perception above everything – including people and their hearts – we are walking dangerously. The Gospel was never written for people to fight eachother with.

    God loves people – they are precious to him – he sent his son for all, not a select few. People were the reason he created redemption and restoration. He wanted to make a way for us, he desires to set us free. He changed my heart from hatred to love. He desires to set people free – not tie them up in works or outward appearances. He cannot be boxed…:)

    SO I dunno. Im not one to go around ‘false propheting’ but I do know that our father calls us to love, he is love – he is about community and relationship and he hates division an =d factions – the work of the enemy. I don’t know everything and im not theologian – but I know who I used to be and what Gods goodness, kindness and grace has brought and redeemed me. We are so blessed to have this gift of salvation! :)

  58. tony tarr

    isn’t his name Worsher, like in worshin’ yer clothes? i believe its Paul Worsher.

  59. tony tarr

    i like what you had to say above, lots X. Very Nice! just kiddin’ bout the worshin’ thing,…we scrub r overalls in the crick. we don’t care what ole washer says-we ain’t fancy.

  60. Ingela

    Thank you for sharing that experience, Xtina.
    I believe this may be the result when people, with sincere desires to ‘please God’ end up becoming legalistic, and judgmental towards all others.
    Tis is a very real danger with for instance the ‘Hebrew Roots’ movement(s) as well.

    As you say ‘it all sounds so good’, but… What becomes the fruit?

    In all fairness I muct say we, all of us, risk falling into our own forms of legalism too, so we should watch ourselves.

    But there is another dimension to it also:
    When we watch out for false teachings and wolves in sheepswool, we will be stamped as being ‘judgmental’. That comes with ‘the job’ so to speak.

  61. Vic

    While this topic is being revived, enjoy this:

  62. Ingela

    Yes, Vic.
    Washer has some excellent preaching. No doubt. I’ve appreciated a lot myself.

    However, it may lead to putting a heavy yoke on people, and even having some doubting their salvation. Perhaps there is a ‘fine line’ here? Some/many/all ‘Christians’ surely need to search themselves in the light of Scripture.

    Washer does have something to say to the lukewarm Laodicean ‘church’. It’s just that some true believers may actually end up stumbling, where this kind of ‘puritan’ teacing has a danger of falling into the legalistic roadside ditch. (Whereas most of contemporary, Western Christianity ends up in the other ditch – of ‘cheep grace’, and a ‘best life now gospel’.)

  63. andre' leibee

    if people stumble over his words (whether intended or not-which i do not hear) that is because they are following spiritual lusts in their hearts rather than the the Lord’s Holy Spirit. that is a temptation we must all face and choose hearing Jesus’ Voice above all others or the result will be as was described in xtina post. have been there myself………..we can become confused or moved by our flesh-or others-so easily if we are not rooted and grounded in His Love to rightly divide the Word. painful yes but pray for the Truth to prevail and Mercy to heal.

  64. tony tarr

    truly awesome vic, that was beautiful,thanks for putting it there. it blesses me! blessings to you-all….

  65. Hello Extina,

    Welcome here ;)

    I loved these powerful words you said –

    “The only thing that stopped me from being sided with them was that my testimony.”

    When the enemy comes to KILL ,STEAL and DESTROY , we had better not succumb to his lies but resisting him with the TRUTH !!

    BE A OVERCOMER BY THE WORD OF YOUR TESTIMONY !!
    We are born-again by the WORD OF GOD…that is so very powerful!

    I loved that you quoted the “forth stone” in the five smooth stones ;)

    Rev 12:11
    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Until we all come to the unity of the faith. I love that ;)

  66. I first came to God just over a year ago. It wasn’t a choice on my part, as at the time I was not searching nor deserving of any relationship with God, it was literally a wallop out of nowhere that transformed me in an instant. Almost instantly after that – days later when I was searching beyond belief to begin to understand what this walk with Christ was… I found Brother Washer, and still to this day he is my favourite preacher. I disagree with many of his ideas and believe he is wrong about some things. But for me – it doesn’t matter. He has the love of God and Christ in his heart, and his heart is ablaze with that love, and he very rightly puts a line in the sand and says over and over again that this is the line where we Christians will not cross! And this is the standard which we must live by… and to me… thats the very message most of the former Christian nations need to here the most in these most troubled times.

    I have yet to find a single preacher with whom I can agree. And to me thats ok, if their love of God is right and pure, and their message of right Christian living is on target, then I am more than happy to hear. As for the others – I find Macarthur so wrong on so many things that its my opinion he preaches wild heresies whenever he opens his mouth or puts pen to paper – I find him extremely dangerous. Piper is decent, but I can’t feel the power from him, Sproul seems right on many things – but again I don’t feel the power of God from him – and I find great issue with his “sales”.

    Just my 2c – Christian love to all.

  67. Gino Tamayo

    I’m not a Calvinist I’m a believer in Gods word and so happen to agree with brother Calvin’s interpretation ..1. we are totally depraved taught in scripture undisputed 2. Unconditional election :
    God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look 3. Limited Atonement:
    Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all). Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, etc etc all this I believed before I even knew who Calvin was. I was an athiest and asked God to show me if he was real to please help me with my hopeless and he answered me as I read his word I saw how great he is and his love for his elect ..all glory be to God almighty.

  68. Ara Amirjanyan

    I would humbly call the attention of all to words preceding “did predestinate” in Rom.8:29. It says “whom he did foreknow”. FOREKNOW! My dear Calvinist brothers and sisters, you are not saved because you have been predestinated. You are saved because you have been foreknown! It is striking how deliberately would some people omit the fact of God’s foreknowledge in order to stress the election. I don’t know the exact term how I could label what I am going to say, since I have never read about it, but in my belief, salvation is neither monergestic (100% of God’s election and effectual, irresistible calling and 0% of man’s sovereignty) nor synergestic (50% of God’s doing the job and 50% of man’s consenting to it). It is simply 100% of God’s sovereignty and !00% of man’s conscious repentance and appropriation of God’s redemption. How can these two seemingly (SEEMINGLY) contradictory statements be reconciled, I don’t know, and to be honest I don’t even care. First, I find the two in the Bible. Second, go please to Deut. 29:29 and humbly admit that there are matters we can never have an exhaustive answer for and the relationship between God’s absolute sovereignty and man’s sovereignty under its umbrella is one of those. Man’s repentance and appropriation of God’s salvation has nothing to do with man’s merit. It is simply the utilization of the salvific pill. The merit is in the pill, namely, Christ! When you utilize Christ by faith you admit just the opposite, that you are needy, unworthy and unable to save yourself!

  69. tony tarr

    sooo beautiful, music to my ears

  70. mike

    Seek the Lords face sincerely and the repentance will come as you draw closer to God and want toi please him with your walk.and when you do sin his grace is always there.peoples eyes seem to be on man than God

  71. welheminah

    i just discoverd this now..wow..we are living in interesting time..God didnt create us as robots but gave us free of choice..Jesus died for the whole world and evry1 will surely be accountable for rejecting Him..there is no hell material person..God is slow to anger & He said in Peter He doesnt want any1 to perish but come to repetance..the issue of election will contradict many scripture if we en0tertain it.South Africa

  72. ARA AMIRJANYAN

    I may not agree with all Paul Washer or other calvinists believe or teach, but I love this dear brother in Christ. As a matter of fact, many books in my library that have been a great blessing to me, are written by Calvinists. After all, the Lord didn’t say “When you all come to uniformity in theological matters, then people will know that you are my disciples”. You all know very well what He said. If that’s the case, I, a non-calvinist, will love my brothers and sisters calvinists, fight shoulder-to-shoulder with them against our mutual enemy and, by God’s grace even lay down my life for them, if needs be. Both Hell and Heaven will be filled one day with people from both theological camps…

  73. Welcome here Welheminah,

    I love the simplicity of what you said ” .God didnt create us as robots but gave us free of choice..Jesus died for the whole world and evry1 will surely be accountable for rejecting Him..there is no hell material person”

    Another South-African? Yay!! Hullo sussie! Groete van Canada :)

    Can you image Jesus dying only for the very ” elect ” ? Oh Lord have mercy on us as we’ve placed IDOLS { which includes men } above the Thy Word!

    Let God be true, but every man a liar. I love that!

  74. Sorry hasty post again:) where is that edit button again huh Boetie Vic.? Moeine worrie daaroor nie dit hou my nederig :)

  75. Vic

    :-)

  76. I came across this site because I recently discovered Paul Washer on Youtube. I have personally long suspected that the common teaching of, “Say this prayer and you will be saved!” was insufficient, simply because, like many of you, I know people who have said the prayer and manifested little to no decent behavior afterward. Far be it from me to look for any human to be perfect, but it just seemed like there were many Christians who lived by the “It’ll all be good come Sunday!” mantra. My elementary understanding of the Bible, when I was younger, seemed to wildly contradict this notion, even make it seem deadly. With time, I started to study the WHOLE Christian tradition. I became an expert on the ancient world, on the teachings of the Church Fathers, etc.. Now, I do not wish to start a debate between Catholicism and Protestantism, by any means, but one thing that has always seemed strange to me is how often Protestants do not consult the history of Christianity, but rely easily upon terminology defined after the Reformation exclusively. St. Augustine, for instance, felt that “determinism” and “free will” were BOTH operating, simultaneously, and it was our inability to understand this paradox that showed we were human, i.e. that in the mind of God there was no contradiction at all. It also seems to appear that the Protestant tradition has corrupted the meaning of many theological words, and that were congregants educated on the ancient definitions of some of these terms, that the understanding of some of this theology would be more clearly illuminated. For instance, the Protestant and Catholic definitions of “grace” are very different, yet I have found, with time, the “ancient” definition and understanding to make much more sense and fit together properly than the meaning of “grace” that arrived after Luther, Calvin, etc..
    All that being said, it is obvious that there are also people who DO instantly transform because of a close, personal encounter with the Lord. The history of Christianity is filled with examples. What seems dangerous to me is that we all want to rely upon the teachings of theologians – we want to become Calvinists, Lutherans, Augustinians, etc., when the teachings of Jesus himself are much more direct. If a man were truly, deeply filled with love for his brother, what would that look like? We want to know academic truth, so often, but we put half as much labor into following the Lord’s teachings, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.” What has struck me most, as I have gotten older, is how often I can meet other Christians, whether Baptist, Methodist, or Catholic, and find that the men who truly love the Lord have more in common with each other than with their respective sects. I find Mr. Washer’s message to be important, especially in the southern Baptist churches, but I suspect that, until Christianity is truly unified, we shall all possess only a piece of the truth.

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